Of course they charge more for premium options than what they actually cost to include. It's how builders make money to stay in business. The very base models are not terribly profitable so they count on customers wanting a few special options. It's the same in almost any industry. Do you think the luxury version of a typical car costs 10K more to make than the base model?
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Fretboard woods upcharges
- Thread starter DrStein
- Start date
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,222
- 45,015
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Are the upcharges for features on new cars priced according to their cost to the manufacturer and accurately passed on? Is a different color paint really $1000 more expensive?
Basic economics - if you think it costs too much, don't buy it.
If enough people disagree with you, the cost will go down.
If they don't - the cost is not too high.
Most "boutique" luthiers are not making big bucks. They could almost all earn more working a regular union job using their carpentry or electronics skills.
Least commonly heard sentence in the English language:
"Oh, that's the luthier's Ferrari."
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Since you used the car analogy: It depends on the manufacturer. Some take it to the extreme, like AUDI, for example. This is why I will not buy one. What I am trying to do from the answers here is to calibrate my judgement a little, in order to be able to better take this decision.
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Yes, it’s incredible hard, on the Janka scale it’s roughly 2x harder than maple. Due to ebony’s interlocking grain pattern it’s prone to tear out, can be brittle, it dulls the heck out of any blade you use on it and it’s sawdust is poisonous/ an allergen. It can give you skin rashes and if you breathe enough of it, a bloody nose or coughing blood. Found that out the hard way. But it polishes up beautifully and sounds great as a fingerboard.
When I had a custom build done, I put together what I wanted and looked at the bottom line to get it in my hands. How the builder chose to nickel and dime everything was not a big concern. If the final cost is too much, you go back and decide what you can live without.
Yes, I have one on a bass. I am thinking about what to put on a guitar. Probably something a little less bright, like a Ziricote or a Macassar Ebony(?). We shall see. I generally like rosewood but I am fed up with it. Never touched a maple and I won't since it can get nasty in the long run...
In a thread a while back that asked what basses available now will likely be worth more in the future, I replied: "Any that are made of nice wood". Just look at furniture/cabinetry sold today.....the crushing majority of it is made with paper-thin laminate over MDF or plywood or whatever, because wood is already far more expensive/ in shorter supply than it was 50 years ago. The trend will not only continue, but will continue to accelerate.
Some others to consider:
Pau Ferro is a very nice fretboard wood that Fender Mexico moved to almost completely from rosewood. Most of Fender's stock is kind of dull and oragney, but there are many examples that are very nice, dark, and can be nicely polished. It's harder than rosewood, and is much more plentiful at this point. It might be a good alternative.
Purpleheart is another option that is almost a hard as ebony. Some is really purpley, though, so you'd need to be choosey if you want it very dark.
As for maple, most modern maple boards are finished with a sealer of some kind, so generally they stay nice and clean for quite a while. I have a 2006/8 Geddy Lee Jazz with a maple board that I bought used from the original owner who gigged a lot. He clearly cared for it over its life, but it was pristine; no nastiness in the slightest.
Unless someone is telling you the species and grade, you’re not getting what you linked. You’re getting the $64 ebony blank from Stewmac.
There’s no way that there isn’t a extra price premium built into any upgrade.
Nothing is priced high to discourage you from buying.
The only people that do that are folks like the comic book guy on The Simpsons when they have some old toy in a box.
Prices are set by sellers to create a profit for themselves that reflects their costs, plus the economic cost of holding inventory, plus a profit.
Prices can come down if they can’t sell something and want to move on, or go up if they want to profit off of scarcity.
The holds true in terms of home building.
If you buy what a builder put on a lot, you will pay less than “custom” building the exact same house to the exact same specs.
In the wine industry, the cost difference between a $100 and a $10 bottle of wine is less than $3 and that is really the label quality and the bottle.
If you order a bass neck from Warmoth, maple costs $35, ebony costs $100 - a $65 upcharge. If you want black ebony (if you're into sustainability, I'd argue against that, it's $120 - an $85 upcharge. This is not just for the ebony - if it costs more in labor to work with a harder material, that is in that cost.
It's not surprising to me that ebony costs more. $250 seems steep.
It's not surprising to me that ebony costs more. $250 seems steep.
"Real Ebony", could include at least 4 species in the Diospyros genera, though people often mean Gaboon Ebony, which is CITES listed Appendix II. Even so somewhere like Luthiers Mercantile will supply you an A grade bass fretboard blank of Gaboon Ebony for a shade under USD 50.00. If you want to specify completely black, with no striping, the price will most likely go up.
There are other Ebony's from the Diospyros genera, Indian/Ceylon, Macassar/West African, Mun, and Black and White.
Though the amount of Gaboon Ebony has been reduced in nature by at least 50%, these days they've stooped burning or discarding any but the completely black stuff, which used to be common practice in the past!
I get that even black coloring might be a preference, but it can only be for the look, being all black doesn't make it better Ebony. I prefer a bit of color variation, though not everyone does. (also a heck of a lot of even black ebony is really black stained stripy wood....)
There are other Ebony's from the Diospyros genera, Indian/Ceylon, Macassar/West African, Mun, and Black and White.
Though the amount of Gaboon Ebony has been reduced in nature by at least 50%, these days they've stooped burning or discarding any but the completely black stuff, which used to be common practice in the past!
I get that even black coloring might be a preference, but it can only be for the look, being all black doesn't make it better Ebony. I prefer a bit of color variation, though not everyone does. (also a heck of a lot of even black ebony is really black stained stripy wood....)
I'm a purpleheart fan boy. I love the look, that some will hate. It's very stiff and stable IME. And even though other woods may be harder it has excellent abrasion resistance and I have used it on fretlesses with stainless steel roundwounds.
I think LMI is selling roasted purpleheart which changes the color from purple to black. And it dyes well so it's easy to make black. There is a number of species being sold as purple heart. I find that stuff that is very rich in color turns black, the stuff that's not as vibrant doesn't get as dark with time.
And of course, this is driven in large part by what will it cost to replace the several years old wood I just used up: FAR more than what that last batch cost me.
I'm trying not to go off on my rant about supposedly 'green', 'environmentalist' musicians who wag their fingers at all of us about it, while paying fortunes for expensive axes made out of wood that's probably illegal or unavailable any more.
I've thought for a long time, that at least for solid body instruments, as long as it was structurally stiff and repeatable enough to use in instruments, if all the wood came from Home Depot, that'd be OK with me, because in a sense, that's where we're headed.
I'm trying not to go off on my rant about supposedly 'green', 'environmentalist' musicians who wag their fingers at all of us about it, while paying fortunes for expensive axes made out of wood that's probably illegal or unavailable any more.
I've thought for a long time, that at least for solid body instruments, as long as it was structurally stiff and repeatable enough to use in instruments, if all the wood came from Home Depot, that'd be OK with me, because in a sense, that's where we're headed.
Depends on the wood. In the '60's and '70's Fender charged more for maple boards than for rosewood. That may have been due to the alternative skunk stripe construction rather than the cost of the wood. I'd check the average cost of the species in question on multiple sites and that will give you an idea on whether or not you're being gouged. Hope this helps.
Ebony is expensive and requires occasional maintenance. If it dries out it can crack.
Ebony is expensive and requires occasional maintenance. If it dries out it can crack.
Yes, ebony is much harder to work with and tends to be brittle. The stripey Macassar is reckoned to be a little easier to work with. I’d likely tend to only consider it for fretless basses. There are man made substitutes that have come on the market in the past couple of years that could bear looking into. Ziricote is beautiful, but I hesitate to mention it because it will surely be on the CITES list at some point. Cordia Bocote is a hard beautiful wood I see from time to time. Since you’re in Greece you could even look into the properties of olive wood, although I’ve only ever seen small pieces with unsuitable grain. Katalox is a dark purpley wood that came on the market a few years ago and became popular. Pau Ferro of course. If you like red, Bloodwood is nice and hard and retains its red colour over time. Padauk is readily available and reasonably priced. I’ve seen zebra wood used as well. Good thing about it is that it’s nearly always quartersawn to get the stripey effect. Purple heart, cocobolo etc.
That's just supply and demand. Of the available maple wood, relatively little of it is figured, but that's what people typically want more than the plain stuff.
