Fretless: 5 or 6 string?

[rtav]

I'm looking for a fretless 6 now myself; hoping to find either a Carvin LB76f or get a 6 and have it defretted or get a fretless fingerboard.

I'm used to playing a 6, so between a 5 and a 6 it's a no-brainer for me.

There are tons of fretless 5's by comparison (like there are tons of 5's compared to 6's in general). In shopping for 5, you should be able to find just the bass you need.

 

[spade2you]

As an unlined guy too, this was something that held me back... Until I started thinking about painting the board with a black, high gloss, sandable lacquer, and then coating it with superglue for a superhard finish. It would look like an ebonol board of course, but it is a good way of unlining a lined board.

This is true. I've been lucky to be able to order customs and have them built to my specs. I perceived a lack of unlined fretli on the market, which is how I dipped my toes in the luthier made realm. I guess I might not be a boutique guy if this weren't the case.

 

[Watchootognbout]

THIS^

I've done several. Note that if you can't see fretlines easily from the side wrong dots will drive you NUTS and you'll have to install dots in proper fretless places somehow.

My preference now is for a blank plank conversion. I think it's easier than defretting and looks much cooler too! I've done two jazz basses that way. I just bought a pre-radiused piece of fingerboard ebony from a luthier's supply. You get out the steam iron and take off the fretted fingerboard (see instructions on YouTube...but it ruins the old board) and saw the new one to fit and glue it on. I did side markers by drilling small holes in the edge and filling them with white epoxy. Was a fun job and basses turned out EXCELLENT!

Now I must admit.I didn't know doing it yourself was possible.Removing the fingerboard with a steam iron and having a blank fretless fingerboard glued on.OK! now maybe...........

As an unlined guy too, this was something that held me back... Until I started thinking about painting the board with a black, high gloss, sandable lacquer, and then coating it with superglue for a superhard finish. It would look like an ebonol board of course, but it is a good way of unlining a lined board.

Check this out!I didn't know this was possible!The vid how to remove a fretboard.Then you can have a blank fretless fingerboard installed!

 

[bassbenj]

Check this out!I didn't know this was possible!The vid how to remove a fretboard.Then you can have a blank fretless fingerboard installed!

Possible! Check out my Avatar! That is an SX 6 string with fretboard removed with steam Iron and ebony blank plank fingerboard installed. Not that big a job and resultant bass just supreme! I did side markers rather than the usual mathematical calculations but by carefully tuning the bass with the strings I intended to use and then with a credit card and tuner finding the exact spots for the various notes. Only downside is if you go to different strings the accuracy of the markers may be off more than if you used the standard compromise positions.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Possible! Check out my Avatar! That is an SX 6 string with fretboard removed with steam Iron and ebony blank plank fingerboard installed. Not that big a job and resultant bass just supreme! I did side markers rather than the usual mathematical calculations but by carefully tuning the bass with the strings I intended to use and then with a credit card and tuner finding the exact spots for the various notes. Only downside is if you go to different strings the accuracy of the markers may be off more than if you used the standard compromise positions.

Yes.I was trying to steer Matthew_84 to that post where you said how you removed the fretboard with a steam iron.He said that he prefered unlined to lined.

 

[rwkeating]

The way I look at it, 6 gives you more options (no one will force you to use the high string a certain amount of the time So what are the downsides of a 6? 1. if the string spacing is too wide for you (left or right hand), 2. the string spacing isn't wide enough for you (if you want to slap/pop), 3. the more strings you have the harder it is to control the open strings ringing. If those 3 don't concern you, go for a 6. #1 and #2 will vary by manufacturer and mode. Any other downsides of having one extra string?

 

[Matthew_84]

This is true. I've been lucky to be able to order customs and have them built to my specs. I perceived a lack of unlined fretli on the market, which is how I dipped my toes in the luthier made realm. I guess I might not be a boutique guy if this weren't the case.

Yeah, I've certainly looked and been enticed but those kind of purchases will have to wait a few more years, once we pay down our house a little bit and take care of some much needed improvements. For now it's lined fretlesses or painted boards for me, or...

Check this out!I didn't know this was possible!The vid how to remove a fretboard.Then you can have a blank fretless fingerboard installed!

That is a good idea and I've heard about it - thanks for the quotes and video, I've never seen it done. I may end up doing this, but right now I'he looking at the Ibanez Portamento 5'er which does have an unlined board.

The way I look at it, 6 gives you more options (no one will force you to use the high string a certain amount of the time So what are the downsides of a 6? 1. if the string spacing is too wide for you (left or right hand), 2. the string spacing isn't wide enough for you (if you want to slap/pop), 3. the more strings you have the harder it is to control the open strings ringing. If those 3 don't concern you, go for a 6. #1 and #2 will vary by manufacturer and mode. Any other downsides of having one extra string?

More money, less selection, guitarists will throw stones at you (just joking)...

My main concern is neck width, but I am also a bit of a minimalist and I hate unnecessary things. There is a chance that I'll end up seeing the high C as unnecessary and will begin to not favor the bass because of it, and I don't want that to happen.

 

[spade2you]

Yeah, I've certainly looked and been enticed but those kind of purchases will have to wait a few more years, once we pay down our house a little bit and take care of some much needed improvements. For now it's lined fretlesses or painted boards for me, or...

Most of my stuff was purchased before home ownership, marriage, and kids. The hospital also used to have more overtime than I could shake a stick at. I'm now married, with kids, and got salaried. I have slowed down a little.

 

[Jim Carr]

As an unlined guy, defretting isn't much of an option.

Tru dat.

 

[Jim Carr]

As an unlined guy too, this was something that held me back... Until I started thinking about painting the board with a black, high gloss, sandable lacquer, and then coating it with superglue for a superhard finish. It would look like an ebonol board of course, but it is a good way of unlining a lined board.

IMHO, this is a terrible waste of time and money. How about an Ibanez SRF705?

 

[Matthew_84]

IMHO, this is a terrible waste of time and money. How about an Ibanez SRF705?

Yeah, that's the leading contender right now.

 

[Jim Carr]

Yeah, that's the leading contender right now.

Tony Franklin 5-string Fretless is killer, but probably $500 more, if you can find one.

 

[Matthew_84]

Tony Franklin 5-string Fretless is killer, but probably $500 more, if you can find one.

Really? I thought that only came in a 4 string... I'll look around. Thanks!

 

[Jim Carr]

Really? I thought that only came in a 4 string... I'll look around. Thanks!

They exist and are unlined and passive with a buffering circuit so the P and J pickups work well together. If you want it to be active, just get an Aguilar, Sadowsky, or Tech21 pedal pre.

Are you looking for 34" or 35" scale?

 

[Matthew_84]

They exist and are unlined and passive with a buffering circuit so the P and J pickups work well together. If you want it to be active, just get an Aguilar, Sadowsky, or Tech21 pedal pre.

I can't find them on the Fender website. I'll keep searching though

Are you looking for 34" or 35" scale?

34"

 

[Jim Carr]

I can't find them on the Fender website. I'll keep searching though

34"

I think they are rare, but I have seen and played one in Austin a couple of years ago. There are images here and there on the internet, but probably pretty rare.

The Ibanez SRF705 is a 34" scale instrument, right? You might look around for a used Valenti fretless on TB and ebay, they pop up now and then.

 

[Matthew_84]

I think they are rare, but I have seen and played one in Austin a couple of years ago. There are images here and there on the internet, but probably pretty rare.

The Ibanez SRF705 is a 34" scale instrument, right? You might look around for a used Valenti fretless on TB and ebay, they pop up now and then.

Yeah, I really like the SRF705... Truth be told, I am a little worried about it being a neckthough though. I've never owned one and would be worried of any neck issues.

Plus there's the fact or fiction debate whether a neckthrough has a slower attack time and longer sustain than a bolt-on, which I wouldn't want... I asked if anyone noticed this in the Ibanez Portamento Club thread, but I haven't gotten any responses yet.

 

[Jim Carr]

Don't know about your budget, but what about asking Nino Valenti for a quote? His prices are still reasonable.
Maybe you could price out a professional defret? That would basically open the whole world.

Also, a neck-through's rumored attack time on a fretless is not going to be an issue, because all fretless basses have a less steep onset to the attack envelope.

IME, you want a quick attack, fretless is not going to give it. I actually played a fretless P-bass for four or so years in various Bay-Area blues bands, but got a fretted neck when I joined a 9 piece horn band that did a lot of Soul and Motown-ish repertoire.

 

[Matthew_84]

Don't know about your budget, but what about asking Nino Valenti for a quote? His prices are still reasonable.
Maybe you could price out a professional defret? That would basically open the whole world.

Also, a neck-through's rumored attack time on a fretless is not going to be an issue, because all fretless basses have a less steep onset to the attack envelope.

IME, you want a quick attack, fretless is not going to give it. I actually played a fretless P-bass for four or so years in various Bay-Area blues bands, but got a fretted neck when I joined a 9 piece horn band that did a lot of Soul and Motown-ish repertoire.

Thanks! I'll give Valenti a shout.

I've owned and played many bolt-on fretlesses and I love the swell/slow attack, but I don't think I'd want anything slower... I was more concerned with the rumoured longer sustain, but I always mute my notes before sustain become much of an issue, so I'm not sure what I was worried about!

 

[Nephilymbass]

I've settled on a fretless, but I keep changing my mind from if I want a 5 or 6 string, and I need some help.

At first I was settled on a 6'er, but changed my mind due to a lack of options, and while 6 string Ibanez SR necks are the best 6 string necks I've tried in stores, my hand isn't completely comfortable on them. I thought a 5'er tuned to D-G-C-F-A# would be a good compromise, for getting at least as low as a D, which I want, getting a few higher notes as well, and getting a more comfortable neck.

I tuned my fretted 4 string to D-G-C-F to prepare, but I'm not a huge fan of it. I can't play some of the fast rock riffs with it that I love to play (mostly Tool) and I'd prefer to go lower than D because I use it a lot and would rather it not to be an open string. I thought B-E-A-D-G would be good enough, but I think I'd really, really like the high C string on a fretless.

I'm likely going to get an Ibanez SR 6'er and defret it, but I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks!

P.S. I'm curious what some of you guys think of the tone of a fretless high C string? I typically don't like the G string in the first few frets because it sounds really twangy to me, and I'm wondering if a high C string would be even worse.

I think high c strings are great for solo bass stuff where the bass doesn't really have to compete in a mix of instruments. I always enjoyed it playing at home by myself. But playing with my band was a completely different situation. I always found that playing the same note on the g string a few frets higher cut through the band better. The high c is fun for tapping parts, chords, and stuff. I just think it depends on the instrumentation of the people you jam with. For me high C just didn't cut through with my band the way all the other strings do. In reality the extra range isn't the point. It's not that much more range and you'll have to reach farther to the other strings so unless your going to be using chords or tapping parts it's not that useful. You'll rarely ever find your self playing 24th fret on a high c string other than to just see how high it goes. I played a 7 string for a couple years tuned f#beadgc, and I'm back to playing a 5. And every single thing I wrote with my band on seven string I can play on 5 string either in standard beadg or dropping the b string to A. There's also other ways to hit higher notes above the range of a 5 string. Steve Bailey has a lesson on harmonics on YouTube from the warwick factory. I spent a lot of time working on those techniques And it'll allow you to get another full octave out of the bass instead of just a 4th like adding the high c does.