I prefer unlined; as many others have stated, when standing, it's hard (impossible for me and my playing position) to see the lines. Side dots, in the proper positions, are plenty good enough to get you close -- your ear does the rest.
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Fretless Bass advice needed!
- Thread starter scottie65
- Start date
I played a fretless jazz bass for years with only side dots. Muscle memory did the rest beyond the odd peek for big jumps. My preferred fretless now is an early 80's Ibanez Musician MC924 which has both side dots and these very unobtrusive inlaid dots on the far right of the fingerboard. Very thoughtfully done: a little hint with the look of the unlined neck. A while back I had the opportunity to buy a Squier fretless jazz bass for a song. The presence of the lines was a constant distraction and I sold the bass. My sense is that an experienced fretless player with good intonation will likely find the lines superfluous as time progresses. BTW, what makes me mental now is the scale difference between my upright and the fretless EB.
I'm a "no lines" guy largely because I find fretless lines to be confusing and distracting. Like all fretless insurments (bass/violin/cello/etc) you WILL have trouble with intonation at first - that is natural. Just play. And play. And play. Your hands and ears will figure it out. Many have walked this path. Remember - very little in life that is worth doing is easy.
Get unlined if you are worried about what a very small percentage of the audience (almost all bassists) thinks about the way your instrument looks. Otherwise get the lines. You don't have to look at them but they are there if you want them. First bass I ever owned was an unlined fretless. I now use lined. Helps in crappy monitoring situations, playing double stops and large position shifts. If the looks are an issue, by all means get the blank plank.
Sooner or later someone always draws an analogy to double bass in these threads. Yes upright is unlined. That holds ZERO relevance to bass guitar and lines however as anyone who actually plays double bass will tell you.
Sooner or later someone always draws an analogy to double bass in these threads. Yes upright is unlined. That holds ZERO relevance to bass guitar and lines however as anyone who actually plays double bass will tell you.
I originally thought I wanted lines, but it turned out the first fretless I bought didn't have them, and I quickly determined I didn't need them. Cello training from 50 years ago finally paying off? Maybe. I don't claim perfect pitch but I suppose it's 'pretty good' pitch...
When I started getting more serious about it I bought a nice big rackmount tuner for practice, as a cross-reference, to make sure I'm not drifting off too much. It helps, although if I'm playing to backing tracks or with other musicians, it's gotten pretty much automatic.
So -I- don't like the lines and I believe that if you dedicate yourself to it (it's all I play any more...) you won't need them either in very short order. But get 'em if you want - there's a lot of borderline religeous fervor on this subject that I just don't get.
I will mention that it is reported (I have no first-hand knowledge...) that on some less-expensive lines fretless with plastic line inserts that a) there is a tonal difference when fretting right on the line and b) they tend to sprout up from the board, requiring frequent re-dressing.
When I started getting more serious about it I bought a nice big rackmount tuner for practice, as a cross-reference, to make sure I'm not drifting off too much. It helps, although if I'm playing to backing tracks or with other musicians, it's gotten pretty much automatic.
So -I- don't like the lines and I believe that if you dedicate yourself to it (it's all I play any more...) you won't need them either in very short order. But get 'em if you want - there's a lot of borderline religeous fervor on this subject that I just don't get.
I will mention that it is reported (I have no first-hand knowledge...) that on some less-expensive lines fretless with plastic line inserts that a) there is a tonal difference when fretting right on the line and b) they tend to sprout up from the board, requiring frequent re-dressing.
I have the lines on my Am. Std. Fretless Jazz, but if I need a reference peek, the dots would be enough for me.
I agree that fretless lines are confusing and distracting - at least to me. They don't function like frets. Just practicing for a while reorients me as to intonation. I play fretted bass guitar and upright as well. Fretless is fun - I use it for jazz if the upright isn't going to work for the gig.
Here's the Ibanez MC924. Lovely little dots on a very sweet neck.
And wrt to Kael's note above, I'd agree that a fretless EB has nothing to do with playing upright: and I do both.
On the upright, a near miss pretty much does it most of the time (a 42" scale helps heaps, so does the thuddy nature of the beast). On a fretless EB, a near miss can make your fillings ache...
And wrt to Kael's note above, I'd agree that a fretless EB has nothing to do with playing upright: and I do both.
On the upright, a near miss pretty much does it most of the time (a 42" scale helps heaps, so does the thuddy nature of the beast). On a fretless EB, a near miss can make your fillings ache...
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Bear in mind, it's all up to you in the end, and a lot does depend on your monitoring situation. If you play on dark stages, and in loud bands in boomy rooms, those lines can help a ton. If they're good enough for Juan and Gary, then they should be fine for you if your situation dictates. I personally have been fortunate that lines dots and frets don't throw me off or confuse me at all. And the aforementioned comment about double stops is very accurate.
agreed. I've heard enough fretless players get their intonation off playing loud stages to want to have lines on mine, "crutch" or no. And everybody decrying lines can take it up with Gary Willis.
I practice upright exclusively but have the converted fretless bg, naturally with stripes. Upright is all different because there are reference points on that huge scale, like the neck heel which attaches the neck to the body. It is an acoustic instrument that is as much felt ( massive resonance ) as it`s heard. It`s all about your body`s relation to the instrument and more about your whole body and weight of your arms playing than fingers. You try to nail your intonation on it by practicing long, sustaining notes with the bow. It is a huge violin, nothing like a guitar. That`s why I like my fretless bass lined, there`s not that amount of physical reference happening and there are situations where you just have to look at the fb ( not like this wasn`t happening for me on the db as well at his point ).
I have never played a lined board, but I firmly believe that if I did I would find it no easier. You can plunk your fingers down on the lines all day and still be out of tune on every note. It takes very little practice to guesstimate where the positions in between marked dots are.
But it`s still a matter of what you get used to from the beginning. If you have to sight read music you better not be looking at anywhere but the paper, or maybe the conductor and the paper, not the fingerboard.
Another thing is about beeing able to maintain eye contact with the rest of the band and the audience while on stage. It`s sometimes kinda uncool to play with, or check out players staring at their instruments on stage.
Practicing in the front of the mirror and with eyes closed might be a way on learning this. The muscle memory system also has to adjust for standing posture, if you practice sitting down only.
As with any aspect of playing, the masters have their own ways to go about it. Jaco had lines, Tony Franklin does not. Both spoke / speaks for their way of doing it and both have their advantages / disadvantages.
EDIT: I`m no expert by any means but this is what I have learnt so far. I love the fretless bass sound and that`s what got me into playing db. Fretless bg - edb - first time bowing the E-string of my teachers acoustic db - What the hell, did I make THAT SOUND - db only
Another thing is about beeing able to maintain eye contact with the rest of the band and the audience while on stage. It`s sometimes kinda uncool to play with, or check out players staring at their instruments on stage.
Practicing in the front of the mirror and with eyes closed might be a way on learning this. The muscle memory system also has to adjust for standing posture, if you practice sitting down only.
As with any aspect of playing, the masters have their own ways to go about it. Jaco had lines, Tony Franklin does not. Both spoke / speaks for their way of doing it and both have their advantages / disadvantages.
EDIT: I`m no expert by any means but this is what I have learnt so far. I love the fretless bass sound and that`s what got me into playing db. Fretless bg - edb - first time bowing the E-string of my teachers acoustic db - What the hell, did I make THAT SOUND - db only
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I have an unlined with side dots, and it is enough to work with. One option would be to get a unlined and put tape lines on the fret board. A lot of people starting on an upright have a few tape lines for quick reference on where the positions are. You could add or subtract the tape lines as you need them. and eventually remove them if you like the clean look.
Have fun with the frettless. They are a lot more work, but there is more reward when you get the intonation nailed.
Have fun with the frettless. They are a lot more work, but there is more reward when you get the intonation nailed.
