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Fretless Fretlines and Dots

AndersonCounciI

AndersonCounciI

Jan 5, 2017
11
2
Eastern Pennsylvaina
iancattell.com
#1
I've got a Tony Franklin Sig fretless P bass. It has no fretlines and has the dots where the lines would be. Logistics on the road made it necessary to get a backup, and I was able to get a fretless Jazz at a very nice price. It had fretlines and strangely enough my intonation was off. On the recommendation of a bandmate I took it to a guy to have a new fingerboard put on. When I got it back, my intonation was worse. A lot worse. It took me a minute to discover the dots were in the same place they were with fretlines. (clarification - the new fretboard has no fretlines)

Would anyone want that? I spoke to the they guy on the phone and he insisted that he's been doing work like this for decades and has never had a bass player want the dots where the frets would be. I just can't imagine how that could be? Is he just trying to cover up a mistake?

Are there any of you that have a fretless bass, custom or not, that has no fretlines and the dots are in the same place as one with fretlines? Would any of you want that??
 
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#2
For fretless, I prefer frets "on the line position" not in between like on a fretted. I have some fretlesses that are the other way and it's not a problem if the fretlines are easily visible. I have one though with the dots "in between" and almost invisible fretlines - I'm going to have to do something about that one! :D
 
#3
AndersonCounciI said:
Would anyone want that? I spoke to the they guy on the phone and he insisted that he's been doing work like this for decades and has never had a bass player want the dots where the frets would be. I just can't imagine how that could be? Is he just trying to cover up a mistake?
Are there any of you that have a fretless bass, custom or not, that has no fretlines and the dots are in the same place as one with fretlines? Would any of you want that??
Click to expand...

He's flat wrong and covering.

Dots between positions with no lines is a rookie mistake.
 
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#7
AndersonCounciI said:
To clarify, the new fingerboard has no fretlines and this guy put the dots in the same place they were on the old fingerboard.
Click to expand...

Ah okay, I misunderstood your original post. I agree with you that "where the frets would be" is pretty much the industry standard for an unlined fretless neck.

The only argument I can see for the luthier's decision in this case, is that he was replacing an existing fingerboard and tried to copy the original as closely as possible, assuming you were happy with the dots in their original location.
 
#10
So you talking about surface dots.
It seems you have a defretted bass.
The top dots still being in the same place as those on a fretted.

On an unlined,the side dots ARE put where the fret would be.
Here I'm fingering the B on the E string and it's octave above.
Both notes are in tune with the open low B.
20180228_160804.jpg
 
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#11
AndersonCounciI said:
I've got a Tony Franklin Sig fretless P bass. It has no fretlines and has the dots where the lines would be. Logistics on the road made it necessary to get a backup, and I was able to get a fretless Jazz at a very nice price. It had fretlines and strangely enough my intonation was off. On the recommendation of a bandmate I took it to a guy to have a new fingerboard put on. When I got it back, my intonation was worse. A lot worse. It took me a minute to discover the dots were in the same place they were with fretlines. (clarification - the new fretboard has no fretlines)

Would anyone want that? I spoke to the they guy on the phone and he insisted that he's been doing work like this for decades and has never had a bass player want the dots where the frets would be. I just can't imagine how that could be? Is he just trying to cover up a mistake?

Are there any of you that have a fretless bass, custom or not, that has no fretlines and the dots are in the same place as one with fretlines? Would any of you want that??
Click to expand...


Me, I like when the side dot position markers are located at the fretting points of the fingerboard !

Personally, I put bigger points, it defines a "zone"...

To clarify and debunk, whether it is a fretless bass with fretlines or a fretless bass with the side dot position markers at the fretting points, the notes are not really on the lines or on the dots but just a little forward like on a fretted bass when you press the strings against the frets... I don't know if I'm making myself understood correctly ?

Anyway, fretted or fretless, the fingers remember, we have a muscle memory. Then, you have to tune the bass well and above all use your ears. Over time, like a violinist or a double bassist, you no longer really need to use our eyes, just use the Force !

To reassure everyone, you end up getting used to everything and especially you, the humans are very adaptive !

May the Groove be with you.






 
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#12
Tony is a great player, but I completely disagree on his theories on why unlined is better, particularly for people just starting out on fretless, or for people who play primarily fretted. Most unlined players are audibly slightly out of tune, all the time. Dots between "fret" positions are worse than useless on a fretless. If people have an aesthetic preference for unlined, that's all good, just put some dots in the "fret" location on the fingerboard edge, it's HUGE leg-up for accurate intonation right off the bat. Eventually you may not need it, but only if fretless is all you ever play, a mall minority of bass players.
 
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#13
I am in compromise... Most double bass players and fretless bass players (lined and unlined) are often slightly out of tune, that's part of the sound and the charm... The notes are not really on the lines or on the dots, we must always compensate... Tune the bass, adjust the intonation, use your ears and use the Force !

May the Groove be with you.
 
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#14
Having finally jumped into the fretless bass world myself after many years of playing fretted bass, I now understand the reasoning for no lines and dot markers at the note, not in-between like on a fretted or lined-and-dotted fretless fingerboard.

I bought an American Pro-II Jazz fretless. It has lines and side dots. I thought I'd be more comfortable transitioning with the lines. I was, at first, for like the first 4 hours I played it. Then I realized I can only see the dots while standing and they're not in the right place. Also, the lines are plastic and protruded slightly above the rosewood (brand new...) and created slight buzz, like fret buzz. Some fine sanding leveled them out, but who knows if they'll stay put or not.

So, if I ever buy another fretless, it will be unlined fretboard with the side dots at the noting point (where the fret would have been) not in-between.
 
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#15
My Fender P fretless basses have dots exactly where they would be on a fretted bass. Doesn’t bother me because I know that’s where they are. Fingers don’t have hard edges so intonation by sight isn’t always best case.
My fretless basses are unlined.

First comment, not every dealer knows how to intonate a fretless. Many don’t even try. I’m curious when you say the intonation is off and then go so far as to replace a fingerboard do you mean the bass isn’t set up properly? Lines on the playing surface should be intonated to during proper setup. I use painter tape for straight edge references when I need to change my bridge saddle positions.

Next comment (and this always gets some dudes riled up, sorry in advance),
Fender is a mass production facility and the pilot holes that are sunk with marker clay or other material are drilled by machine. It’s reasonable to assume given the extreme niche quantities of fretless basses made by their Corona and Ensenada plants they either don’t have a separate production template for fretless or employees aren’t accustomed making a program change for what looks like a standard neck on the assembly floor.

Either way, it doesn’t surprise me when those dots on Fenders are in fretted (centered) position instead of offset to the fret. Every neck starts fretless in production. Whatever is most cost effective for Fender to do the favor of a fretless build, that’s what you’ll get.
Fretless to fretted volume is probably 1/10 what some of you think it is.
 
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#16
lz4005 said:
He's flat wrong and covering.

Dots between positions with no lines is a rookie mistake.
Click to expand...
As far as “wanting”, I don’t really care. I would not specifically ask for dots in the wrong place. That said, at the 12 in most cases there are 2 dots, both in the wrong place if they are straddling the “fret line”.
I’ve learned to not trust my eyes with fretless. Not judgement about lines but my fat bent finger plus a line isn’t as reliable as my ear and muscle memory.

As I’ve said in other posts, I highly recommend growing up with a battle axe violin teacher who hits your hand when you look at the neck. It builds strong habits. Worked for me anyway.
 
#17
IMO, side dots on a fretless bass should ALWAYS be where the fret would be, whether it's lined or unlined.
When I'm in playing position, I'm seeing the side dots rather than bending forward to look at the face of the fingerboard.
The Jaco signature fretless originally had the side dots right at the fretline (not between frets), at least the one I saw did.
 
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