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Fretless Frustration

P

Paul_Bruno

Jan 15, 2010
8
0
#1
Hi,

I would like some advice on how to accentuate the mwah sound out of my fretless bass to get that ghostly effect.
I am trying to get a sound similar to Mike Karn (Japan-Quiet Times), Pino Palladino (Paul Youngs - every time you go away) and Jaco (three views to a secret).

My Gear Includes:
Bass - Fender American Standard Jazz Bass (Fretless)
Strings - Thomastik flatwounds (43-100 gauge)
Amp - Ashdown Eng. Evo II 500 - Has traditional three band eq (bass/mid/treble) + 7 band graphic Eq.
Effect Pedals: BOSS CEB3 Chorus and BOSS LMB3 Limiter/Enhancer

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
 
#3
First thing is to get it set up by someone who knows how to set up a fretless Bass properly - not yer local Strat butcher, or someone who thinks because they own/manage a music store they know all about everything music related.

I'd say you also need rounds to get the mwah...
 
#4
The guys you cite use roundwounds. That would help. Nickel rounds are nice and warm, and a bit easier on the fingerboard than steel.
Get your action as low as you can.
Boost low mids (play with a boost somewhere between 400 and 800K).
Don't add in the pedals until your happy with the basic sound.
 
#5
The great majority of "mwah" fretless tone comes from 1) set-up and 2) technique - not so much the gear you use.

I would recommend using nickel roundwound strings, rather than flats. Make sure you have a high-quality set-up, with uniformly low, precision action. Experiment with your right-hand technique (assuming you're right-handed) to find the optimum place to pluck the strings (typically close to the end of the fingerboard), as well as optimum touch (typically a light attack),

Using a decent amount of midrange on your EQ settings is a good idea. Again, experiment liberally and let your ear be your guide. Once you're achieved all that, using a bit of chorus can be a beautiful thing... :cool:

MM
 
#6
Thanks Guy's - some great tips.
I switched to flats some time ago as was concerned with the damage to finger board.
Also the bass is due a visit to a luthier. Payed someone some time ago to set it up for me when I got it from new, but have since changed the gauge I use and so some notes do not ring as well when I hit them..

Will try playing closer to the fingerboard. typically have played close to the bridge for a faster playing style and felt uncomfortable nearer to fingerboard due to the slacker feel to the strings...

Ta
 
#9
Paul_Bruno said:
I am trying to get a sound similar to Mike Karn (Japan-Quiet Times), Pino Palladino (Paul Youngs - every time you go away) and Jaco (three views to a secret).
Click to expand...
None of those sounds are very similar to each other, to be honest.

Mick Karn would record his basslines twice, once for the left channel, and once for the right channel. This would give him a sort of unique, chorusey-doubled sound. I can get pretty close to it with a really short delay. I mean really short, to the point where it's almost imperceptible. Mick was playing a Travis Bean bass at the time you specify, he was yet to get the Wal bass. By the way, the album you referred to is called Quiet Life, not Quiet Times.

On Every Time You Go Away, Pino is using an octave pedal (a Boss OC-2, if I recall correctly), on a fretless Stingray. The OC-2 is pretty much 90% of what gives the bass its tone on that track.

As to Jaco... well, there are probably about 500 threads on TB about how to cop his sound already, so...

:)
 
#10
I have the same bass and strings -but i like this sound- try some DR Sunbeams or even some different flats TI are very low tension .I had DR's on and you do get more mawaaah but i just like flats. also Thor epoxy does an amazing job -i am on the waiting list to have mine done. i dont have the link handy just google THOR EPOXY BASS or use the search feature on here .which you might want to do anyway -there is lots of discussions on fretless and strings in the threads here.
 
#12
Many people here have mentioned "low action" as a way to emphasize the "mwah" on a fretless. In my experience, it's not so much having the action low as setting the neck up fairly flat with very little relief. You can actually have the action a little higher (if you prefer) and still get the "mwah" as long as the relief is set correctly.

Mike
 
#13
Strings that will give you that roundwound sound that aren't so hard on the board include coated roundwounds and compression wound strings.

For coated roundwound, my very favorite (and one of my favorite all time strings) is the Black Diamond black coated string.

Coated roundwounds are also now available from Strings by Aurora (more trebly than the Black Diamonds), DR, Ernie Ball, Elixir, and D'Addario. I think the Black Diamonds are the only ones with pure nickel wrap as well, however.

Pressure-wound strings are flatter than rounds, but rounder than half-rounds and are easier on the board as well. The two I know of are GHS Pressure Wound and Ken Smith Compressors. Both of these use wrap made of 52 Alloy, a 52/48 blend of nickel and iron, which is highly magnetic and way softer than stainless or NPS. My wife commented on the improvement in overall tone (signal strength, clarity, strong fundamental, and musical overtones) when I put these on. The previous strings were new as well.
 
#17
middlebit said:
You might want to check out your left hand technique if you're wearing it out. Obviously, you should avoid doing bends like you would on a fretted bass. If you want to preserve the finger board, that is.
Click to expand...

This. I've yet to have a wear problem after decades of playing with roundwounds becuase I don't bend the strings across the neck, I get vibrato by playing parallel to the fingerboard. I even slap on mine with no ill effects.

And this...

mikezimmerman said:
Many people here have mentioned "low action" as a way to emphasize the "mwah" on a fretless. In my experience, it's not so much having the action low as setting the neck up fairly flat with very little relief. You can actually have the action a little higher (if you prefer) and still get the "mwah" as long as the relief is set correctly.

Mike
Click to expand...

I set my action low but I think having the board straight is a big factor. Also I typically don't play near the end of the fingerboard, the quickest, punchiest and easiest to control mwah for me is nearer the bridge. Solo (or at least favor) the bridge pickup and with the right technique it''s almost unavoidable.

Add the effects after you've figured out how to get and control the basic sound. Otherwise they can become a crutch. You can really soften and fatten the initial attack of the note with technique. For that I play more with the pads of my fingers vs. the tips.
 
#18
Paul_Bruno said:
Hi,

I would like some advice on how to accentuate the mwah sound out of my fretless bass to get that ghostly effect.
I am trying to get a sound similar to Mike Karn (Japan-Quiet Times), Pino Palladino (Paul Youngs - every time you go away) and Jaco (three views to a secret).

My Gear Includes:
Bass - Fender American Standard Jazz Bass (Fretless)
Strings - Thomastik flatwounds (43-100 gauge)
Amp - Ashdown Eng. Evo II 500 - Has traditional three band eq (bass/mid/treble) + 7 band graphic Eq.
Effect Pedals: BOSS CEB3 Chorus and BOSS LMB3 Limiter/Enhancer

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Ditch the flatwounds-Jaco and Pino were both using Rotosounds on fretless basses (J Bass and Musicman respectively)
If possible boost the 600 Hz in your midrange, use mostly back pickup and pick over the fingerboard.
That should bring the mwah.....:)
 
#19
mikezimmerman said:
Many people here have mentioned "low action" as a way to emphasize the "mwah" on a fretless. In my experience, it's not so much having the action low as setting the neck up fairly flat with very little relief. You can actually have the action a little higher (if you prefer) and still get the "mwah" as long as the relief is set correctly.

Mike
Click to expand...

A fair point - with the operative phrase being "a little higher". While the key thing is indeed having uniformly flat action, there is still a relatively narrow range of action that will produce "mwah" on a fretless bass - and that range definitely exists on the low side of average. If you have to work too hard to produce a sound, mwah just ain't gonna happen... :hmm:

MM
 
#20
Paul_Bruno said:
Will try playing closer to the fingerboard. typically have played close to the bridge for a faster playing style and felt uncomfortable nearer to fingerboard due to the slacker feel to the strings...

Ta
Click to expand...

Since you're still figuring out how to get your fretless tone, I would think that speed should be the least of your concerns. By the time you've mastered the ability to play with consistently great tone and consistently accurate intonation, the ability to play with greater speed should already have begun to manifest itself.

As to feeling uncomfortable with the slacker feel of strings near the fingerboard, this is almost 100% a technique issue - and it should cease to be an issue once you've adjusted your technique to compensate for the feel of the strings in that area of the instrument. Believe it or not, playing closer to the fingerboard actually allows you to play with much greater dynamic range - but in order to realize these benefits, you have to learn to play with a greater degree of control... :hmm:

MM
 

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