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Fretless intonation

S

Sebm89

Apr 30, 2012
11
0
#1
Hello Everybody- Im new here. ( i got another topic in the recording forum)

I just started playing bass, after years of playing guitar.
And im really loving it.

I bought my self a Squier fretless, that i really like. 3(weeks ago)
I bought a fretless after listing alot to Ohm bass player : Robertino Pag Pagliari.

And so far i think its going quit well. But my question is:

How well can/should i expect to be in "perfect" pitch?
I know its something you should always try to be, and become better at.

But if i take my tuner and try to play, there is someplaces i can see im like a little less than quarter tone flat. its ofc very obvious And thats something that i need to work on. But the places i feel comfortable at (place i played the most) im like often 1-3 max from. by one and three, i mean the digital pin that tells you how close u are.

So how "perfect" should i be, to be considert worthy of calling my self a fretless bass player? :)

Thank you- hope you understand.

Christoffer
 
#2
Well, you and I aren't much different in this department, as I bought myself a Squier fretless about 5, maybe 6 weeks ago now. This is something that I've debated a lot too, and I have looked into it.

What I've come to realize is that the majority of people do not hear 100% in tune. No one's ears are as accurate as a tuner. I feel like I can get away with maybe 15% off on the lower notes and 5% off on the upper ones. And this is basically what I've come to realize based on my own hearing. It is much easier to hear a note out of tune in the upper register, so much so that, to me, it is harder to make it sound in tune. Where as if I'm playing the first F, I can be a bit out and not really notice.

Now, since we're fretless players, our ears will be better at hearing if we're off than most other peoples. I've noticed a huge improvement in my hearing since I started on the fretless 6 weeks ago. I keep striving for perfection and I keep getting better, and the window I have before it sounds bad is getting smaller and smaller.

So basically, don't stress yourself out and beat yourself up over it, just strive for perfection, really give yourself the chance to work on it and pay close attention, and soon enough you won't have to worry about stuff like this.
 
#4
It took me a little bit of time to get up to speed on my (Squire VM) fretless, where I could play most songs in tune. And I had been playing bass for over 25 years at that point. You cant really "expect" to play everything in tune by a certain time. Just takes practice. And a tuner is a good tool but I would play along with songs or in a band situation to really get up to speed.
 
#5
Martiluk said:
Since you're so new to bass you may not know and if you do I'm not trying to demean you, but on a fretless ,if you have fret markers, you play directly on top of them to be in tune. Good luck!
Click to expand...

Provided the bass and intonation is set up right. But what if you're jamming with some friends and following a chord chart, it may be a little more difficult to look at your hand... I look at mine too, especially when doing shifts and chords, but a lot of my exercises are me not looking at the neck and hearing for what adjustments need to be made. I do have a clip-on tuner, but I don't stare at it... I close my eyes and play, when I feel like I'm in tune, I open my eyes and check the tuner to see if I'm good or not.

It's really tedious at the start, but it helps my ear get a lot stronger and then I don't have to rely on the markers as much.
 
#6
Martiluk said:
Since you're so new to bass you may not know and if you do I'm not trying to demean you, but on a fretless ,if you have fret markers, you play directly on top of them to be in tune. Good luck!
Click to expand...

No, you need to play slightly behind the fret line, otherwise you'll be sharp. The meat on your finger is going to cover an area much bigger than the fret line, which means the string will contact the fingerboard at a point slightly in front of the fret line. Play slightly behind the line so that the strings makes contact right on the line.
 
#7
jonathanhughes said:
No, you need to play slightly behind the fret line, otherwise you'll be sharp. The meat on your finger is going to cover an area much bigger than the fret line, which means the string will contact the fingerboard at a point slightly in front of the fret line. Play slightly behind the line so that the strings makes contact right on the line.
Click to expand...

+1, I find a general good rule of thumb is to align the fretline parallel to where the right side of my nail (I fret with my left hand) meets my finger, so roughly 3/4 of my finger is behind the line. The part that is ahead of the line doesn't really touch the board unless I rotate my finger to make it do so for vibrato or finding the pitch or something.

But again, the lines are not 100% accurate, even if it's 100% in tune at the open string and 100% in tune at the 12th fret, the lines at the lowest and the highest end of the board will likely not be 100% in tune. This is what separates a fretless from a fretted, a fretless if played right, can be perfectly in tune, even with different measurements of tuning. This is also why the lines and markers are good guidelines, but the ear should be the final judge of pitch. Hence why a lot of fretless players prefer an unlined board, as it takes away the lines, which some find to be "distracting" - I personally like them, as I use them just as a guideline when I need to, and they're helpful in shifts, and when playing chords and double-stops.
 
#8
My bass neck is kind of, um off(gonna get it fix soon). So i find that the markes doesnt add up.
So yeah mostly its just behind.

Anyway. Thanks guys, i think im doing pretty good then. Looking forward to be part of your community - and ask you alot of beginner questions :)

Christoffer
 
#9
Learning intonation with the help of a tuner is not a very good idea. You need to train your ears and train intonation while actually playing music. That's hard to do with a tuner. A very good method is to practice with drone notes. Set a continuous note on your computer or some other device and play a part in a key that is defined by that note. The endgoal is to be as accurate as any other instrument with keys or frets: nothing less!
 
#11
Hello. Again.. Yeah, i just did the think with a tuner, to get an idea. A way to explain it.

I have made some backing types track in cubase. And that the main way i practice

Thanks
Christoffer
 
#14
There are some good pointers here but they're not address the problem of 'smeariness'. Using ears, eyes, and tuners and great (and you should!) but they are corrective measures rather then preventive. You hear a note out of tune, you fix it. But by that time the out of tune note / slide has already been detected or recorded.

The goal is to have intonation like a fixed pitch instrument - hit the key and there's the note.

The way to accomplish this is through 'finger-replacement' exercises.
On the G string, play an A (second 'fret'). Then play a B with all four fingers down. Do this several times (with a tuner) until both pitches are rock solid. Play the A again and play the B again. Now FREEZE. LOOK at your hand and move your second finger to where the B is currently being played with your fourth finger. You should now have successfully shifted positions AND be in tune.

Rinse and repeat with all notes and fingers and all strings. Check my signature for links to my bass site....
 
#15
basspirate777 said:
Shed some scales cap'n! Rely on ye ear and never fear...as well as your tactile feel. You should start "feeling" whether or not you're in tune
Click to expand...

Although this sounds rather 'jedi-ish' it is good advice. Of course music is aural but incorporating the tactile will clean up the intonation.

I studied with a Lyric Opera Orchestra member and he would suggest practicing with ear plugs and / or blind folds.
 

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