Double Bass Fretted Double Bass?

[Blake Bass]

Since I am primarily an electric bassist , I put side dots on my upright to help me get aquainted with the positions. Here's what I did. I punched holes in a sheet of paper and used the perefect little paper cirles that were left in the whole puncher. I colored them black with a sharpie and taped them on the side of the fingerboard. I am the only one who can see them and it does help for now. When and if I ween myself off of them it shouldn't be to difficult to remove a few small pieces of tape.

 

[drurb]

Okay, I'll be the curmudgeon today, its probably my turn.

There's always the radical idea of practicing and actually learning to play the thing.

Intonation on the DB is about muscular memory, hand position, and practicing shifts. IMHO, its not about looking at where we are on the fingerboard.

We can't read music while we look at the neck anyway. Even if we aren't reading, we have to be able to move instantly, without looking. So, why spend time starting to play that way?

+1 to Robobass; the tape makes a gluey, tattered mess.

Okay, back to being mellow.

Thank you, Eric! I was about to post saying essentially the same thing and then came to your comment.

I can understand using temporary position markers in the first days of learning to play. Then, that's it! I virtually never look at my hands when I play (ok, I often see them up in TP). Putting frets on a modern double-bass would bastardize the playing of the instrument. After all, the absence of frets is what allows much of the technique of playing.

 

[EggyToast]

You notice lines on a lot of "student level" violins, brand new, so that people can learn to play the instrument quickly w/o a full time teacher. Sometimes these lines are permanent (a different polish on the fingerboard) but most of the time it's from tape or something similar.

I would imagine that's what you saw at your school -- a double bass w/ tape on it that gave the impression of frets.

 

[kurt muroki]

tape can be very useful in the 1st year of playing. It helps to visualize the fingerboard. When writing music for the double bass, some fantastic composers tell me that they get an old fingerboard and mark the notes using tape or chalk to visualize and try fingerings out to make sure their composition works on the instrument. if you want to use tape, try gaffers tape... no sticky mess when removed. Usually you can find it at art stores. Also fretted basses were around more recently than we think. Franz Schubert states that the 5-string fretted bass was still being used in Vienna in I785. the trout quintet by schubert (written in 1819) was originally written with a 5 string viennese bass in mind!

 

[DanielleMuscato]

if you want to use tape, try gaffers tape... no sticky mess when removed. Usually you can find it at art stores.

Or music stores, LOL... It amazes me how many musos carry duct tape instead of gaff tape. I bring a roll of 3"-wide black and a role of 1" white to every show. I always tape down my cables if I'm running across a stage (I'm an electric bassist) with gaff tape, and I use it all the time for labeling things, e.g. the inputs at the board when I'm running sound, etc. It's great stuff.

 

[dchan]

I don't think dots or markers on a fingerboard count as frets, per se. Don't frets act as a damper on a stringed instrument? I mean, you press down the string at some point, and the nearest fret to your finger going towards the bridge is the note being played. Dots and markers are merely guides on fretless instruments.

 

[Deleted member 5551]

Admittedly, but I most certainly wouldn't do that, personally. I have this massive thing about resell value. Nail polish can half the sellback price, in my crazy world of paranoia. And I would never dream of putting nail polish remover anywhere near my hypothetical bass.

I'm on the other end of the spectrum. First, I own this bass...it's not hypothetical, it is on the floor near my music stand. I'm not overly concerned about resale value. I plan on owning this bass indefinitely. I've had it for a few years now [got it in 2004] and it has several knicks, dings, scratches, and other wear marks. When I buy another bass, this one will still get played...it sounds great, feels great, and is built like a tank. Knowing that I'll be walking about a mile in 4 degree weather before wind chill, I'm thankful that it's a ply. Edit: FWIW, it's a New Standard Cleveland Ply from 2004.

I agree with the post about just scratching them off.

So, are you too paranoid to use rubbing alcohol to clean the bridge or strings of said hypothetical bass?

I like having the dots. I think out of the 5 guys I've studied with, 2 of them haven't had dots of some kind. They aren't slouches or hacks by any stretch. If I worked half as much as they do-I wouldn't be working retail. I use them the same as I do on electric bass-as a reminder of where I'm at. Do I look at them when playing? Rarely.

all the best.

 

[CalebWilson]

Well. Thanks for saying so, I guess.

Now I'm not saying that you (collective) don't respect your instruments, but I AM saying that MY version of respect - for something that in my opinion is amazingly attractive (Upton SS Blonde) and will take anywhere from 2-5 years for me to save up for, as a school student without a job yet - involves not altering my instrument in any way. If it was absolutely necessary for something to be done, I would have a professional luthier do it.

I'm not willing to get into any arguments about this topic. I've made my point, and I'm very well aware that I'm the only one who holds it, so there is no need to say so or even acknowledge this post in a reply. If you do so, it will only be showing off your opinion and putdown skills to the other participants in this thread.

Cheers.
Caleb

 

[rcarraher]

There's a little controversy about the history of our instrument. Some say that the bass is descended from the bass version of the viol, and others the violin family. A French guy even wrote a book "History of the doublebass," putting forth his thesis that the bass is entirely a member of the violin family and always was. There seems to be not enough documentation to really do more than make an educated guess, I think. The essential difference between the violin and viol families is that the violin places the soundbar (bracing) under the bass side foot of the bridge, and a post under the treble side foot. So the bridge and post assembly acts as a fulcrum. Whoever came up with this was the "inventor" of the violin, and a real genius. Anyway, I think it's reasonable to think that the violin, viola and cello developed together as a family, and as a bigger bass instrument was needed, the bass came into use, with probably the first basses being converted bass viols. If you look at Dragonetti's famous bass, you can see from the spread of the F-holes that it had probably 6 strings or more when it was built.... Anyway, because of the ungodly size of the instruments, some makers kept viol features that worked for that big a box -sloping shoulders, flat back, shapes etc. maybe they didn't want to throw out their old moulds... in any case, what makes a violin a violin is first and foremost the bassbar/soundpost arrangement, which the double bass has.

For the OP, I wonder why you'd want such a thing. It wouldn't be easily intonated, and it wouldn't sound like a double bass as we know it, so if you're attracted to the sound of the double bass, you wouldn't really get that from a fretted instrument. If you are interested in the double bass, great, welcome. Take on the instrument as it is for now, it's really not as hard as it might seem, it's just a different level of physical discipline.

Good luck.

Edit: maybe I'm reading too much into your (the original) post. It seems like you might be asking just because you thought you saw one at school, not because you want to have one.... oops

Wow! Thanks for the very well thought out analysis of the history as well as the history itself. Bet you didn't get this info from watching Jeopardy?

RC

 

[Deleted member 5551]

Well. Thanks for saying so, I guess.

Now I'm not saying that you (collective) don't respect your instruments, but I AM saying that MY version of respect - for something that in my opinion is amazingly attractive (Upton SS Blonde) and will take anywhere from 2-5 years for me to save up for, as a school student without a job yet - involves not altering my instrument in any way. If it was absolutely necessary for something to be done, I would have a professional luthier do it.

I'm not willing to get into any arguments about this topic. I've made my point, and I'm very well aware that I'm the only one who holds it, so there is no need to say so or even acknowledge this post in a reply. If you do so, it will only be showing off your opinion and putdown skills to the other participants in this thread.

Cheers.
Caleb

I'm easily amused tonight, so I'll bite.

Relax. I have not taken any offense from anything that you have said.

When I first get a bass [including my electrics]-I am OCD about not getting a ding, scratch, or even letting finger prints stay on them for very long. After the first one, it is a lot easier. Now? On my StingRay5 every ding has a story and the ones that I don't remember where they came from get an even better story. My Cleveland also has it's share of dings and scratches..some that have great stories, some that have irritating ones. I bought a bib for it in the fall to protect it from some wear and to get rid of the shiny spots on my gig clothes.

I did the dots because I wanted/needed the position reference. I tried using pencil marks, but those didn't cut it. I also didn't want to get the sticky stuff of the tape...or take the time to find the stuff that doesn't leave as much residue. $1.50 + 10minutes with the tuner won.

I dig the blonde basses. The 2 basses that have struck me from their looks the most are: The Cleveland that got the black w/white pinstripes by Norton and the Walnut 5 that Arnold built. Both made my jaw drop for very different reasons.

Keep saving up and researching. The more you do now the better...I think I spent at least a few weeks reading the newbie links over and over again just trying to digest what has been said. Add into it information from other sites and you're in for a huge education. When I first joined here, I was looking for Tabs and could barely play bass guitar....8.5 years later, I'm a different person.

all the best.

 

[Slax]

Found this... fretted DB: http://musicaviva.com/encyclopedia/display.html?phrase=fretted-double-bass

Even though my DB is a cheap ply, I couldn't imagine playing it with frets. I feel it would just ruin the sound, feel, and over all approach of the instrument.

 

[Deleted member 5551]

Here's a link to the Fretted NS Design Basses [EUBs] on Bob G's site. Probably not what the OP saw. Invalid Link Removed

all the best.

 

[Step]

I've seen a fretted DB in a music shop round here, it had frets until I think the 10th fret, the rest of the fingerboard was fretless

pretty useless I thought but hey

the music store employee told me that in hungary and poland fretted DB's are the standard, not fretless DB's

 

[robobass]

tape can be very useful in the 1st year of playing. It helps to visualize the fingerboard. ...

I've always opted for dots if markers were to be used at all, but I guess I can sort of see how tape might be helpful. I've had some students who just can't quite visualise moving across the board perpendicular to the string in the beginning, and so always want to play a low G too flat and a G-String Bb too sharp, for example. But Gaffer's tape is kind of thick. Wouldn't it interfere with making good board contact?

 

[cnltb]

I have seen some...on TV

 

[Eric Swanson]

tape can be very useful in the 1st year of playing. It helps to visualize the fingerboard. When writing music for the double bass, some fantastic composers tell me that they get an old fingerboard and mark the notes using tape or chalk to visualize and try fingerings out to make sure their composition works on the instrument. if you want to use tape, try gaffers tape... no sticky mess when removed. Usually you can find it at art stores. Also fretted basses were around more recently than we think. Franz Schubert states that the 5-string fretted bass was still being used in Vienna in I785. the trout quintet by schubert (written in 1819) was originally written with a 5 string viennese bass in mind!

Kurt,

I have virtually no teaching experience. What you, and others have said makes good sense. I also appreciate the history lesson. I defer to your experience and knowledge. Thank you for sharing it!

This thread has expanded my thinking; its the best of TBDB, IMHO. I came with one idea, read, learned, and leave with a broader perspective. Thank you all, for such thoughtful posts.

Best,
Eric

 

[petesenkowski]

There is a type of fretted double bass; it's called a berde and is used in Croatian Tamburitza music, which employs a family of fretted instruments of varying sizes. The berde has a flat fretboard and is usually played with a pick, a very large thick pick, similar to one used with a mandobass or contrabass balalaika. It's been mentioned on Talkbass before, notably in the "Mars Attacks" thread. Just do a search on "berde".

Thanks,
Pete

 

[Slim Rinkle]

I've only been playing the DB constantly for about 5 months. Although I read, I found it immensely helpful to mark areas on the side of fingerboard at first until, as has been said, my hands became accustomed to the new positioning and technique I needed to change after playing electric for 40 years. Luckily or not, my hands are warped in a certain way now, and I used the Simandl left hand third finger and pinky on the electric, so that wasn't a problem. Had to get my left hand used to the stretch. What I did was get a paper punch ( happened to be stars ) and some white electrical tape and placed at key spots on the side of the fingerboard. Replaced them several times ( does no damage to fingerboard ) and now I've reached the point that when they fall off I just leave them off. Don't need them anymore, but they were a big help in training my ear and figuring out little ways of catching my pitch like open strings and harmonics.

 

[Dave Martin]

the music store employee told me that in hungary and poland fretted DB's are the standard, not fretless DB's

Ya gotta love music store employees...

 

[HogieWan]

I got a 5-string cello a while back. I have no problem playing it fretless when plucking, but my bowing isn't up to snuff, so when I start concentrating on that, I miss a lot of notes with the left hand. I took an idea from the viol de gamba, and tied some thin fishing line (synthetic gut ) on the fret positions. This way I can play in tune and figure out the fifths tuning stuff while my muscle memory is developed.

After playing fretted bass for years, I had absolutely no problem with an unlined fretless bass guitar, because my muscle memory was trained where the notes should be and my ear was developed. But I have no muscle memory with the cello becuase of the scale, tuning, and playing position.

Once I get comfortable with the bow, I'll cut the frets off and I'll have not damaged the instrument or affected its resale value.