Fretted techniques that are harder on fretless?

[oomo]

I've been working on my fretless playing, and noticed a few techniques that seem to work well on fretted, but less so on fretless. These include:

1. Joint barring across more than one string - fine on fretted, but intonation always seems to be off on fretless.

2. Fretting using the 3rd finger directly above the 4th finger (e.g. to play root/5th/octave for G, on fretted I might use 1 for root, 3 for 5th, 4 for octave). On fretless, it seems hard to get the 3rd and 4th fingers directly in line with each other without twisting my hand.

So question is - are these valid to use on fretless, or best to avoid for intonation reasons? Or do I just need to keep working at them? If best avoided, should I stop using them for fretted playing, so that I can play consistently on both fretted/fretless? Or do fretted/fretless just require different techniques/mindsets that you've just got to get used to switching between?

 

[bholder]

Those are definitely 2 areas of difficulty on fretless. Not sure what to do about it. Subbed for the discussion...

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Both these are tough, but doable with practice.
As far as the barring, it's extra tough, but I've seen a vid where Abraham Laboriel bars 4 strings at a time on a 5 string bass with perfect intonation- I honestly think that's just practice.
For the stacking fingers to play say, an A and a D at the 5th fret position at the same time, playing a double stop is hard, but what works for me is arching the fingers more than usual for that. But playing one after the other, say the A then the D, for me what works is releasing the first note with the left hand before playing the next note, so the fingers don't fight for space.
Anyway - that's what works for me.
Both are tough, but both are doable.

 

[MonetBass]

Honestly, using 1-3-4 fingers for playing root-5th-octave would feel weird to me. Coming from starting on DB, I didn't use my 3rd finger for playing notes until I took up guitar. Consequently I use 1-4-4 for playing root-5th-octave.

Double stops are pretty difficult to play in tune on fretless (and DB, for that matter). Practice and listening are the only way to get better at it.

 

[OldShark]

For the stacking fingers to play say, an A and a D at the 5th fret position at the same time, playing a double stop is hard, but what works for me is arching the fingers more than usual for that. But playing one after the other, say the A then the D, for me what works is releasing the first note with the left hand before playing the next note, so the fingers don't fight for space.

That's what I tend to do, too.
When fretting two notes on the two highest strings in the same fret position, I sometimes use just one finger to barre — but I agree that is sugnificantly more difficult on a fretless to get a clear definition than on a fretted instrument.

In order to adjust my technique between fretted and fretless bass, I generally try to position my finger tips more accurately on fretted (just behind the frets) as would be necessary... So it is quite similar to my fretless positioning in regards of spacing.

 

[Papageno]

double stops are generally difficult on fretless and require extra work and specific practice.

 

[Les Fret]

Honestly, using 1-3-4 fingers for playing root-5th-octave would feel weird to me. Coming from starting on DB, I didn't use my 3rd finger for playing notes until I took up guitar. Consequently I use 1-4-4 for playing root-5th-octave.

exactly. Just play fourths with your pinky or bar with index finger. Both in a sort of rolling motion. It’s not so difficult as it seems.

Using two different fingers for fourths on fretless is asking for intonation problems.

 

[KidAmnesia]

Fingering 1 3 4 is the best way I found to play a power chord; but yes, playing chords in general is considerably harder than on a fretted bass.

 

[Lo-E]

That's what I tend to do, too.
When fretting two notes on the two highest strings in the same fret position, I sometimes use just one finger to barre

Me, too.

 

[Pings Bass]

Intonating barres and double stops are indeed a couple of the most challenging things on a fretless, but not impossible. It's really good ear training to practice playing chords on a fretless.

 

[bigjames]

Practice, practice, practice. You can get to a place where all the techniques you described can be done on fretless, but it takes time and effort and a good ear to get there. Eventually it will all work out on fretless as well as it works on fretted.

 

[bigjames]

Fingering 1 3 4 is the best way I found to play a power chord; but yes, playing chords in general is considerably harder than on a fretted bass.

And harder as you move up the neck...I find intonation up over the 15th fret becomes very challenging due to the unforgiving nature of the string at that length (i.e. you have to be in exactly the right spot).

 

[AltGrendel]

Double stops in the fretless does take specific practice but it’s so worth it. One of the things that helped me get started was using open strings for reference.

 

[john_g]

Yes

 

[juancaminos]

Practice, practice, practice. I'm ok with root-five and root-octave plucking, even a root/five two string chord.

Due to my smallish hands I have to practice hard at root/five/octave type three string chord.
Or, for that matter, a root/five chord. Muting the second string but keeping my little finger in the right place for the octave note two strings down and two notes (frets) toward the bridge.

I practice this stuff almost every night, on Fender Jazz and EUB, along with our ever changing set list. Then hardly ever use it live but I do use it. It's rewarding.

Edit to add: Practice playing root/five playing the five up one string as much as playing down one string. From there start playing the root as well as the five all over the fret board. Double both notes or only one. Go crazy with this and soon the simplest way will be even easier. Have fun with it.

 

[Killing Floor]

My dumb opinion is you can play absolutely anything on fretless that you can on fretted.
That said I must have corkscrew shaped fingers I think. It is an effort to hold intonation when chording fretless. I’m reasonably competent with placement but it takes effort to work around the natural lay of your hands. You can do it.
I practice with my tuner on so I keep a running check of my intonation. It helps a little.

 

[pfschim]

slapping, while doable on fretless, can be a challenge just to get the attack right, and can be a little weird because of fretless intonation challenges.

IMO/IME

 

[Jogobass]

slapping, while doable on fretless, can be a challenge just to get the attack right, and can be a little weird because of fretless intonation challenges.

IMO/IME

I second that. It can be done but.. I used to play in a band where we had one original song with slap. All the other songs were on my fretless. I got lazy one day and didn't bring the fretted bass to a gig. Thinking I could pull it off on fretless. It felt great but I heard the recording afterwards and my intonation was very wonky.

 

[Watchootognbout]

Playing triads and four note chords in tune are a real challenge on a fretless.

 

[SteveCS]

I've been working on my fretless playing, and noticed a few techniques that seem to work well on fretted, but less so on fretless. These include:

1. Joint barring across more than one string - fine on fretted, but intonation always seems to be off on fretless.

2. Fretting using the 3rd finger directly above the 4th finger (e.g. to play root/5th/octave for G, on fretted I might use 1 for root, 3 for 5th, 4 for octave). On fretless, it seems hard to get the 3rd and 4th fingers directly in line with each other without twisting my hand.

So question is - are these valid to use on fretless, or best to avoid for intonation reasons? Or do I just need to keep working at them? If best avoided, should I stop using them for fretted playing, so that I can play consistently on both fretted/fretless? Or do fretted/fretless just require different techniques/mindsets that you've just got to get used to switching between?

Both are perfectly valid and both are, as you have discovered, present chalenges on the fretless bass. I thought about looking at each in turn, but actually they both boil down to the same thing: having a hand that is not 'locked in'. For a lot of people they get caught up in the idea that you have to keep all fingers in position all of the time, even those that are not playing notes. This is true of both 3-finger and 4-finger players. The books will all tell you to keep your fingers over the adjacent frets at all times, and some even go so far as to say keep the lower fingers down on the strings behind the stop. This is not necessary. I've said it before but it is worth re-iterating - check out the left hands of some top-class cellists (Yo-Yo Ma, Jacqueline DuPre or Sheku Kanneh-Mason) and see how fluent and free the left hands are, how they glide between tip and pad, how they use the thumb to establish position and how the fingers lead each other around the fingerboard.

IME the Barre is is just a question of alignment. The most tricky part is freeing your hand to facilitate alignment of the finger for perfect intonation at both contact points. Dont be afraid to lift the other fingers away from the locked-in position. You can still do this and maintain good handshape.
In this first picture, Barre with Index, it looks like by middle finger is pressing down on top of index but it isn't - there is no contact:

Likewise, in this next picture it looks like Index and Middle are supporting the stop from behind but they are not - all other fingers are lifted:

Again, in this final picture, only Pinky is touching the strings - the others are lifted:

With separate fingers it is still about alignment, and for that you need to create space to accomodate both stops. So try to play with as much of the fingertip as possible - this creates the space you need to to get both fingertips down side by side. As before, Index and Middle are off the strings:

And once more, playing the 4th with Middle and Ring - Index and Pinky are not doing anything, but they are 'ready' to drop into position for the next note, whereever that might be. In this particular image the index was playing the low octave, but has lifted to enable the hand to realign for the double-stop: