Fretting hand on higher strings

[StaggaLee]

Hello everybody,
I'm recently trying to fix my major problem while playing: fretting hand stiffness and the infamous death grip.
While on E and A I'm comfortably playing without applying too much pressure, things change with strings D and G: I feel no support on the fretboard, fingers become hard to move around with ease and I have a weird feeling overall.
So anyone experiencing the same issues? What's your plan about it? Feel free to ask questions and share your wisdom.

Thank you
Good vibes to everybody

 

[Fernando Costa]

There are several possible causes for this to happen. One is your technique - there are many members who can help - another is your setup. It's an obvious thing and you should know. A lower cut nut makes the instrument much more comfortable, as does a lower action.

Lastly you can try less relief and use lighter and/or less tensioned strings. The D and G strings have more tension than the E and A, any of these setup suggestions will influence these strings more, which may help with your problem.

 

[SteveCS]

Hello everybody,
I'm recently trying to fix my major problem while playing: fretting hand stiffness and the infamous death grip.
While on E and A I'm comfortably playing without applying too much pressure, things change with strings D and G: I feel no support on the fretboard, fingers become hard to move around with ease and I have a weird feeling overall.
So anyone experiencing the same issues? What's your plan about it? Feel free to ask questions and share your wisdom.

Thank you
Good vibes to everybody

It would really help to see some pictures of your left hand and arm at various positions on the different strings. In general terms, hand-shape (or posture) should be relatively constant in all positions. If this is not the case, some pictures or a short video (no sound required) will help pinpoint any anomolies, flaws or other roadblocks. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "support on the fretboard", but it certainly sounds like your entire hand (including possibly your shoulder, arm and elbow) is changing shape as you move across the neck...

PS - Welcome to Talkbass!

 

[StaggaLee]

There are several possible causes for this to happen. One is your technique - there are many members who can help - another is your setup. It's an obvious thing and you should know. A lower cut nut makes the instrument much more comfortable, as does a lower action.

Lastly you can try less relief and use lighter and/or less tensioned strings. The D and G strings have more tension than the E and A, any of these setup suggestions will influence these strings more, which may help with your problem.

The action is lowest I can get without buzzing, I have a talman short scale, which I've been told has less tension than a full scale.
I also play a lot (right hand) on the neck pickup or just below the neck.

 

[StaggaLee]

It would really help to see some pictures of your left hand and arm at various positions on the different strings. In general terms, hand-shape (or posture) should be relatively constant in all positions. If this is not the case, some pictures or a short video (no sound required) will help pinpoint any anomolies, flaws or other roadblocks. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "support on the fretboard", but it certainly sounds like your entire hand (including possibly your shoulder, arm and elbow) is changing shape as you move across the neck...

PS - Welcome to Talkbass!

Yeah I really can't explain any better, it feels like I'm walking on a thread at the 20th floor.
I'll update some visual material as soon as possibile.

Thank you for the warm welcome!

 

[Lobster11]

Yeah I really can't explain any better, it feels like I'm walking on a thread at the 20th floor.

This gives me an idea: Are you by chance fretting with your fingertips, as you would when playing chords on a guitar?

 

[StaggaLee]

This gives me an idea: Are you by chance fretting with your fingertips, as you would when playing chords on a guitar?

Kinda

 

[CatOnTheBass]

Try repositioning your thumb!

Logically, as your fretting fingers move from the EA to the DG strings, your thumb should move to compensate (so your hand can stay in a comfortable shape).

 

[StaggaLee]

[This invalid link has been removed]
Here's me practicing/noodling around.
I played like a year and a half when i was seventeen, then stopped for 15 years, ended up four months ago with a bass in my hands.
I'm trying to re-learn without giving nothing for granted, but maybe I'm repeating bad habits from back then.

Good vibes to everyone

 

[Watchootognbout]

[This invalid link has been removed]
Here's me practicing/noodling around.
I played like a year and a half when i was seventeen, then stopped for 15 years, ended up four months ago with a bass in my hands.
I'm trying to re-learn without giving nothing for granted, but maybe I'm repeating bad habits from back then.

Good vibes to everyone

.......scrolling........scrolling........scrolling........scrolling.......

 

[StaggaLee]

Sorry the video seems to have a problem
I uploaded it on youtube:

 

[Lobster11]

Sorry the video seems to have a problem
I uploaded it on youtube:

I asked in a previous post whether you were playing with your fingertips, and now I see that you are. It looks like you're treating the fretboard like a typewriter, arching your fingers to make sure that your fretting fingers never touch any of the other strings. I can see why those skinny D and G strings seem like small targets that are hard to hit accurately.

Instead, try flattening out your fingers a bit (but not completely) and fretting with a part of your finger closer to the pad than the very tip. In addition to making it easier to "find" the D and G strings, this is important for muting. When you fret a note on the D string, you want some part of one or more of your fingers to rest against the G string to prevent it from ringing sympathetically; when you fret a note on the A string, you want some part of one or more fingers to rest against the G and D strings to prevent both from ringing sympathetically, etc.

@SteveC has some great pics of his fingering positions, ranging from finger tip to finger pad, that I hope he'll post here now that I've paged him.

 

[Killing Floor]

Try lower tension strings.

 

[CatOnTheBass]

Sorry the video seems to have a problem
I uploaded it on youtube:

My advice after watching this video: Stop 'pinching' with your thumb. Make the palm of your hand open and soft, like a baseball catcher making a big, wide target for the pitcher with your glove. If you relax your thumb farther away from your fingertips (instead of tucking or rolling your thumb into your palm), it will make a wider 'fulcrum.' You'll have better leverage so you can fret with less force and fatigue.

 

[fearceol]

I would suggest spending a few minutes doing these exercises. Do them before, during, and after a practice session.





This clip is popular here on TB...and for good reason.

 

[StaggaLee]

Thank you so much!

 

[SteveCS]

Sorry the video seems to have a problem
I uploaded it on youtube:

Yes, there are lots of things to unpick.

• First off, you need to get your arm away from your body and give it room to move. If sitting, get the bass positioned over the other leg - this will open your arm up and get your elbow away from your body. This will make space for your arm to move freely and will also loosen your hand. See how far in and out your elbow moves from (00:14 to 00:24) - almost the full depth of your body. In doing so it is pulling your hand into all sorts of undesirable shapes and positions. Also, your strap looks like it is about to take your head off!!
• Your thumb is all over the place. In some cases your thumb position is so low on the neck and bent out of shape as to be doing nothing to assist getting the strings down. The hand becomes inherently unstable, which might be why it feels like walking a tight rope. I tried to reproduce this handshape (01:17 and 02:46) and my hand instantly started to become unstable and lose mobility. Aim to keep your thumb contact somewhere closer to the centre-line no matter what string you are playing;
• 
  
  
• There are some instances where your fingertips are not landing on the string - at (00:56) the pinky lands between the strings causing a dead note (I think you were aimning for an F?):
• 
  
  
• At (01:39) your middle finger curls under the edge of the neck which indicates high tension in the hand. Your fingers are over-extended and bent backwards at the hand which suggests excessive force being applied to get the strings down.
• 
  
  
• You are wasting a lot of energy and holding a lot of unnecessary tension in the hand just to keep poor handshape. Holding an open stance at all times is not necessary. For example, in the opening section you are playing several bars of A fingered with middle at 5th fret E string - why are you holding your index finger over the 4th fret E string the entire time? The only time you need it at 4 is later where it plays the C#. You could play the opening bars much more easily with just index and pinky, then pivot back a little to reach the C# when the time comes.
• Aim to play cleanly on the frets, not between them. As your 4-finger method does not cover the distances your ring and pinky are not playing over the frets (e.g. 01:44). Playing in between the frets like this requires a lot more energy just to get the string down than playing on or just behind the fret. I suggest switching to a 3-finger method, at least in the lower positions.
• 

Here are some of my images that you might find useful, but remember that these are static:

 

[chris_b]

Forget 1 finger per fret. You are stretching all the time. Go to Simandl system of 1, 2, 4.

 

[StaggaLee]

Yes, there are lots of things to unpick.

• First off, you need to get your arm away from your body and give it room to move. If sitting, get the bass positioned over the other leg - this will open your arm up and get your elbow away from your body. This will make space for your arm to move freely and will also loosen your hand. See how far in and out your elbow moves from (00:14 to 00:24) - almost the full depth of your body. In doing so it is pulling your hand into all sorts of undesirable shapes and positions. Also, your strap looks like it is about to take your head off!!
• Your thumb is all over the place. In some cases your thumb position is so low on the neck and bent out of shape as to be doing nothing to assist getting the strings down. The hand becomes inherently unstable, which might be why it feels like walking a tight rope. I tried to reproduce this handshape (01:17 and 02:46) and my hand instantly started to become unstable and lose mobility. Aim to keep your thumb contact somewhere closer to the centre-line no matter what string you are playing;
• View attachment 5012666
  
• There are some instances where your fingertips are not landing on the string - at (00:56) the pinky lands between the strings causing a dead note (I think you were aimning for an F?):
• View attachment 5012662
  
• At (01:39) your middle finger curls under the edge of the neck which indicates high tension in the hand. Your fingers are over-extended and bent backwards at the hand which suggests excessive force being applied to get the strings down.
• View attachment 5012663
  
• You are wasting a lot of energy and holding a lot of unnecessary tension in the hand just to keep poor handshape. Holding an open stance at all times is not necessary. For example, in the opening section you are playing several bars of A fingered with middle at 5th fret E string - why are you holding your index finger over the 4th fret E string the entire time? The only time you need it at 4 is later where it plays the C#. You could play the opening bars much more easily with just index and pinky, then pivot back a little to reach the C# when the time comes.
• Aim to play cleanly on the frets, not between them. As your 4-finger method does not cover the distances your ring and pinky are not playing over the frets (e.g. 01:44). Playing in between the frets like this requires a lot more energy just to get the string down than playing on or just behind the fret. I suggest switching to a 3-finger method, at least in the lower positions.
• View attachment 5012661

Here are some of my images that you might find useful, but remember that these are static:
View attachment 5012652 View attachment 5012653 View attachment 5012654 View attachment 5012655 View attachment 5012656 View attachment 5012657 View attachment 5012658 View attachment 5012659

Man thank you so much, this is really really helpful and detailed!

I will apply this right now, kudos for sharing your knowledge