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Frustated - Retube? SVT4PRO

N

Nicka

Jan 10, 2006
215
1
Oklahoma
www.myspace.com
Disclosures
Endorsing Artist: Peavey Electronics
#1
Hey all!

So slowly but surely I've been getting more and more frustrated with my Ampeg rig o' doom. It seems to be lacking the bite that I initially fell in love with and it's overall volume and punch is subpar to my ears now as compared to when I got the rig and remember being able to shake ceiling tiles out of place. Trust me, it's still plenty loud but I do have to finesse the EQ, compression, and pre-gain in order to find a balance with my tone. However alot of times I end up frustrated now more often that I'm either getting the tone I need, yet having to sacrifice some volume because I'll be clipping, or I'll sacrifice tone for the volume I need.

What I'm running:

Warwick ProLine (Active Barts)

Ampeg SVT4-PRO
(2) Ampeg 610HLF Cabs

Now, I bought the rig new probably going on two to two and a half years ago. Since that time I've probably played a few dozen shows at full stage volume, and rehearsed, albeit most of the time with only one of the cabs running at lower volume. I know the 4PRO has 3 12AX7's in the preamp and is a SS power amp section.

Would a retube do me any good or are my ears just numbed to the sound? Would a retube help to aleviate the trouble with bringing up a good tone without running into some clipping?

Truthfully this was the first amp I've owned that had tubes and that I wasn't relying on some sort of preamp to give me the tube warmpth that I was looking for.

If a retube is in order in your opinion, would going in with say some slightly hotter tubes hurt the amp in any way? I'm looking for a slightly more gritty tone but as always with the 4PRO that nasty little red clipping light is my worst nightmare when it comes to dialing in my sound. I know I should buy them in a matched set but one of the guitarist in my band runs a slightly lower gain tube in the preamp of his Marshall JCM2000 yet runs a slightly hotter tube set in the power amp section after ALOT of experimenting.

So oh guru's of ye old TalkBass. Lay some knowledge on me! :bassist:
 
#2
Stick some new preamp tubes in if you want, it wont make a huge amount of difference, but maybe some subtle differences.

By hotter, do you mean higher gain? You can get JJs which are rated as higher gain off Eurotubes.com, they have a little bit more bite. However, your amp will still clip at about the same volume, if you put in higher gain preamp tubes, it'll just clip a little bit quicker when your bringing up the gain.

Running lower gain tubes in a guitar presection is a fairly common thing, i alternate between a higher and lower gain tube for the V1 slot in my amp, depending on how im feeling and when i want a bit of change :)
 
#4
Nicka said:
So you are saying that even after 2 or so years of heavy gigging and rehearsing that it really isn't in need for a retube? I'd like to save my money if it doesn't need to be retubed but am glad to spend it if it does.
Click to expand...

Preamp tubes SHOULD last much longer than two years. Mohawk may very well be right: try a 5751 in V1. A 5751 will have 30% less gain and will allow you turn up the gain without clipping.
 
#6
Just the V1 pos.. by the sounds of it. as they say PRE AMP tubes SHOULD last 10-20+yrs.....could it be U R just "used " to the amp???? or a lotta ppl on TB seem to be a bit confused on how to run the amp to get the full volume outta it. do a search(if U haven't already) theres been a lotta info on here already-some good stuff from Jerrold Tiers-former Ampeg employee.
 
#7
Nicka said:
So you are saying that even after 2 or so years of heavy gigging and rehearsing that it really isn't in need for a retube? I'd like to save my money if it doesn't need to be retubed but am glad to spend it if it does.
Click to expand...

My main amp was a rent-out amp, she was a whore before i got her, that included many big festivals over here, on all day, knocked about etc etc.

A couple years ago, the power tubes started to go, so i got them replaced, and replaced the preamp ones while i was at it (even though the preamp tubes were fine). The tubes inside it were all original, the amp was a sweet sixteen at that point. So they were heavily gigged for 16 years before needing replacing, and even then it was only the power tubes. :)
 
#9
A re-tube would not do you any good. The tubes that are already in the SVT 4 are about the best tubes for that amp (electro harmonix 12ax7). It is extremely unlikely that the tubes are worn at all.

As far as clipping goes, you are supposed to be clipping intermittently when you are playing. In the owners manual it will tell you to adjust your pre amp until the red light blinks on your harder played notes. This is totally normal and is common practice with hybrid amps.
Try this:

With master volume on amp all the way off, set volume on bass to maximum
Set tone controls on bass to desired position, set tone controls on amp flat.
While playing somewhat hard turn pre-amp gain dial up until your clip light (red light) starts to blink intermittently. Now you are ready to turn up the master volume. Subtract frequencies (on head) to customize tone. Try not to add too much (this sucks power). Also, using the bass boost sucks power as well.
As you ad more frequency boost you may have to back down a little on your pre-amp gain.
 
#10
There is lots of very good info here. I looked through all the postings, as I’m getting ready to re-tube a Fender Pro Reverb and I need all the help I can get, but as I went back, and re-read your original posting, I noticed something;

Nicka said:
Hey all!

So slowly but surely I've been getting more and more frustrated with my Ampeg rig o' doom. It seems to be lacking the bite that I initially fell in love with and it's overall volume and punch is subpar to my ears now as compared to when I got the rig and remember being able to shake ceiling tiles out of place.
Click to expand...



Don’t mind me hi-lighting some points here, but I think you may just see where I’m going with this…

I would like you to try an experiment, if you would. It’s a NO COST thing, will only take a short while, and may help pin down your equipment failure…

(1) Grab your favorite CD / DVD, and plug it into your computer. Put the head phones on (Ya, you gota use head phones) and listen to at least three cuts…

(2) Now go get a soda / beer, or what ever, and sit down in front of the tube, and watch 30 minuets of something like 2 ½ Men, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, or even the local news, just something NOT musical…

Now go back, and think about it. Where are the volumes compared to say two years ago??? You are 25, and may, just may be experiencing the same thing us retired G.I. types have run into from being around all those nasty things that go BANG / POW / or BOOMMmmmm...

You listed all the rest of the equipment you use, but you didn’t say anything about suppressors. Me??? I have this really great set of Craftsman’s. Maybe you should find a good set of Budds, or other form of ear protection. I would start at Dick’s, or some place where they sell GOOD gun supplies…

I'm probably way off base here, but it's just a thought…

TDY :cool:
A semi deaf, re-tired G.I.
 
#11
Good stuff and I really appreciate the replys guys!!

I do use ear protection when I'm not using in ear monitors on stage and even then I try to keep the volume down.

Fact is I have done alot of experimenting with the head even before owning one as the 4PRO was the head that was supplied alot of times when my band used a company out on the road for backlining and PA. So I'm pretty confident I'm squeezing most of the volume out of the rig while still getting a good tone. I can just see that my future plan to replace the cabs with the Epi 610s is going to be moved up in terms of time.

I'm just looking for a thicker more robust sound than I'm getting right now and I thought that a retube was in order. Thanks again for the info. as I really appreciate all of your opinions!
 
#12
Nicka said:
Good stuff and I really appreciate the replys guys!!

I do use ear protection when I'm not using in ear monitors on stage and even then I try to keep the volume down.

Fact is I have done alot of experimenting with the head even before owning one as the 4PRO was the head that was supplied alot of times when my band used a company out on the road for backlining and PA. So I'm pretty confident I'm squeezing most of the volume out of the rig while still getting a good tone. I can just see that my future plan to replace the cabs with the Epi 610s is going to be moved up in terms of time.

I'm just looking for a thicker more robust sound than I'm getting right now and I thought that a retube was in order. Thanks again for the info. as I really appreciate all of your opinions!
Click to expand...


I used my 4 pro for several years and was happy with my tone. But After a while I began to want something different than I was getting from my amp. I identify with you.
 
#13
We're experiencing the same thing. Head is 18 months old. Purchased new. Just does not seem to blast like it used to. It seems to light up earlier than I would expect. I've emailed seansbrews' advice to check out when I get home. If all the speakers in the cabs are pushing air and no crackling is occuring, is there something else I could check on the cabs?

Eric
also, posted something about this here:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5734038&postcount=25
Sorry for the multiple posts, but my wife is my bass player. I'm in trouble till I get this sorted. :atoz:
 
#14
If I read your post correct your clipping the power amp section? If so you should check your speaker connections for a cold solder or even minor rust. A bad speaker connection will clip an amp prematurely. Also make sure your amp is getting plenty of juice from the wall. If the amp does not get enough power going in it will not be able to pump it out.
 

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