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Frustrated Purchaser needs advice

#41
Another sad state of affairs this is. I'm left wondering though, if the seller was simply routing a body to fit a neck, using an aftermarket replacement neck and outsourcing his finishes, then what exactly is he "building"? IMHO, this process should take a short time indeed, nitro finishes and warped necks notwithstanding...
 
#42
Sandu said:
You really seem anxious to kick him where it hurts, even though you're such an ethical individual. Maybe you should have cornered him politely after all, instead of starting a smearing campaign even before concluding your business with him. "Showing you the story as it happens" is better suited for television, whereas this is just a cheap show. I'm not taking sides or anything, but what you're doing is as unethical as can be in my book. If you really want advice, and you haven't actually started flaming the guy already, you should confront him and have a talk, because you obviously haven't done so. I'm pretty sure you'll know what to do after that. Either you get something back as compensation or you finally go the hard way, but at least it's a conclusion. After you reach it, feel free to share it with others.

I don't want to be a jerk, but the ethical thing really set me off. You blindly rushed into flaming the guy, and acknowledged it yourself, without hearing his side or giving him a chance to defend himself, not to mention the thing isn't over yet. You can't do that and then claim some high moral standards.
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The way I see it, the OP has been totally ethical. He's not mentioned the builder's name. He's explained the situation from his side of things. He's mentioned suspicions but not made accusations. He's sought advice on a coarse of action. He's attempted to contact the builder with no response. I do not see how his actions can be considered unethical.
 
#44
stepswork4me said:
The way I see it, the OP has been totally ethical. He's not mentioned the builder's name. He's explained the situation from his side of things. He's mentioned suspicions but not made accusations. He's sought advice on a coarse of action. He's attempted to contact the builder with no response. I do not see how his actions can be considered unethical.
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+1 on that! the OP posting against this thread did not READ it IMO
 
#45
pilotjones said:
The OP so far has asked for suggestions as to his course of action. He has in several ways given the vendor the benefit of the doubt, he hasn't insulted the vendor, nor has he called on others to join him in taking nasty actions against the vendor. So this is not much of a flame so far. To my view one surprising thing was that he refers a few times to flaming the vendor, while he actually so far isn't doing it.


There was a decent Snagglepuss bit fairly recently on SNL. I was surprised they did it, maybe their audience is older than it used to be.
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He could have asked for suggestions in a different section, not in one where the builder is known to hang out. As the OP said, this is basically an attempt to shame him out. Why would he do this instead of seeking more direct means of communication and how is this right? And how patient is considering legal action against somebody without any confirmation that he's indeed "gone bad", and not just stalling? Just sending emails and calls from time to time just doesn't sound like the thing to do if there's a lot of money at stake. I just can't get over this. If that bass is worth so much, why can't he just take the next flight there and see the guy face to face? As I said, it would have led to a speedier conclusion, and maybe a better one. Now if the builder in question sees this thread, I doubt he'll be as happy to part with another bass or to invest some more money in the bass in question as he would have been if this had not been posted. There's just no way this thing is helpful. And advice could have been had if the same information (apart from part of the name of the builder here on TB) would have been posted elsewhere, where more people, people who would expect such threads to pop up there, would have replied. I'm not saying he shouldn't have looked for suggestions, but this obviously wasn't the (primary) goal of this thread.

Maybe I'm an a$$ and shouldn't have commented on moral standards, but I sure as hell would have been a lot pushier and aggressive when it comes to my money, if I happened to smell a swindler.
 
#46
Sandu said:
He could have asked for suggestions in a different section, not in one where the builder is known to hang out. As the OP said, this is basically an attempt to shame him out. Why would he do this instead of seeking more direct means of communication and how is this right? And how patient is considering legal action against somebody without any confirmation that he's indeed "gone bad", and not just stalling? Just sending emails and calls from time to time just doesn't sound like the thing to do if there's a lot of money at stake. I just can't get over this. If that bass is worth so much, why can't he just take the next flight there and see the guy face to face? As I said, it would have led to a speedier conclusion, and maybe a better one. Now if the builder in question sees this thread, I doubt he'll be as happy to part with another bass or to invest some more money in the bass in question as he would have been if this had not been posted. There's just no way this thing is helpful. And advice could have been had if the same information (apart from part of the name of the builder here on TB) would have been posted elsewhere, where more people, people who would expect such threads to pop up there, would have replied. I'm not saying he shouldn't have looked for suggestions, but this obviously wasn't the (primary) goal of this thread.

Maybe I'm an a$$ and shouldn't have commented on moral standards, but I sure as hell would have been a lot pushier and aggressive when it comes to my money, if I happened to smell a swindler.
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:eyebrow: :confused: :eyebrow: :confused: :eyebrow: :confused: :eyebrow: :confused: :eyebrow: :confused: :eyebrow: :confused:
 
#47
We're obviously dealing with other types of differences between us. It may have something to do with a big stretch of water and about half a continent, but people around here agree pretty much unanimously agree that your own money and belongings are something you fight for, and God willing there are ways. Obviously I'm talking decent and legal here. I myself once helped somebody from out of town who was in a very similar situation. I tracked down the guy who got my friend's bass without paying in order to facilitate a face-to-face meeting, because he wouldn't answer his phone or emails. The problem was ultimately solved just through communication. Apparently the guy had some trouble and figured he could just keep the bass and sell it later to pay off a bank debt or something, I can't remember exactly. My friend insisted on having at least one talk with the guy before going to the police, and that he did, but he did everything he could to get to talk to him. He was practically out the door already when I told him I could help, he was on his way here, and I'm sure he didn't need my aid to find the guy eventually. And mind you, he didn't give his bass to someone who owned a business, had clients and is somewhat known within a community, but to a guy he barely knew on the internet. THAT is giving the benefit of the doubt. You go out of your way to prove that it's a misunderstanding.

I'm just gonna back off now, because I'm clearly speaking a different language. After all, it's none of my business. I'll stick to helping people who need my help.
 
#49
Sandu,
You and I wil have to agree to disagree.
Builder is a TB member- not a Luthiers Corner kinda guy- hes never posted to Luthiers Corner that I can find.
I came here specifically because as a businessman, I know that sometimes you have to find experts in a field and ask specific field related questions regarding shipping, supplies, etc.
I did not name him and will not- you will have to get over that.

Folks- received positive reply from the builder yesterday-there were further damaged supply issues that are supposed to have been dealt with as of yesterday. I expect a tracking number by Monday and probably to be fair to the builder or assembler or whatever we will refer to him as, reviews might not be "ethical" here at TB because then it WOULD call him out now wouldn't it?
This builder's biggest sin is poor communication. At this point I'm going to hold my breath for a tracking number then camp on my porch for a week or so waiting for the currier to arrive.
I will of course follow this up to resolution- anything less would not be ethical.
N
 
#51
Sandu said:
He could have asked for suggestions in a different section, not in one where the builder is known to hang out. As the OP said, this is basically an attempt to shame him out. Why would he do this instead of seeking more direct means of communication and how is this right? And how patient is considering legal action against somebody without any confirmation that he's indeed "gone bad", and not just stalling? Just sending emails and calls from time to time just doesn't sound like the thing to do if there's a lot of money at stake. I just can't get over this. If that bass is worth so much, why can't he just take the next flight there and see the guy face to face? As I said, it would have led to a speedier conclusion, and maybe a better one. Now if the builder in question sees this thread, I doubt he'll be as happy to part with another bass or to invest some more money in the bass in question as he would have been if this had not been posted. There's just no way this thing is helpful. And advice could have been had if the same information (apart from part of the name of the builder here on TB) would have been posted elsewhere, where more people, people who would expect such threads to pop up there, would have replied. I'm not saying he shouldn't have looked for suggestions, but this obviously wasn't the (primary) goal of this thread.

Maybe I'm an a$$ and shouldn't have commented on moral standards, but I sure as hell would have been a lot pushier and aggressive when it comes to my money, if I happened to smell a swindler.
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I can see your point about a face-to-face, but if a great deal of distance is involved, it is not a feasable situation. When you factor in flights and hotel costs now a days you can reach anywhere between $500 to well over a thousand. This then adds to the amount that has already been spent. E-mails and calls are certainly legit. Not responding isn't.

As to the last part of your post. Besides shelling out a grand to fly out for a face to face, how else would you suggest being pushy? I don't see it.

Posting here is looking for help from your bretheren. Elsewhere people might have jumped to saying "sue him" quicker. Here, the OP is being given advice as to how long a build may take and what snafus may have occurred. IMO he has been well tempered by the other TBers on board.
 
#53
Ethical? It's called word of mouth. It's up to a business owner (i'm a communication professional, so I know) to produce good word of mouth, or bad word of mouth. OP could name all he wants. That's what newspapers do, and that's why companies, businesses, and public figures pay out tons of money to people like me to create positive image campaigns and positive press. Slander has to be a lie. Getting on the soap box to tell a story, negative or positive in a buyers beware market is only doing the rest of us a favor. The best thing from a marketing PR perspective would be for the builder to call himself out and apologize for the negative experience this buyer had, explain why these issues can arise, and assure the OP and all who read this thread that he's going to shape up if it's his fault.
 
#54
Hey Nukes.....I agree with basskababble....
If any of us guys in here planed to do business with that guy... not knowing about your experience...and you found out about it... would you share your experience with us to spare us from a similar experience?

I wouldn't play games with that guy, I'd do exactly what you did, state your case in the forum where you found out about him....tell him you need his side of the story by xx/xx/xx. No response...or some punky story, flame him....shout it from the rooftops.... in the forum...at work....at the grocery store...but DON'T lie or stretch the truth.....THEN LET HIM JUSTIFY WHAT HE DID. Listen, if he has a legit excuss, he'll explain it in front of God and everybody. If its a bunch of BS, he'll expose himself. If nothing else, do it for us guy so we don't have to dance with him....tjm
 
#57
Sandu - come on, man. What you're suggesting is utterly preposterous and it may be due to a culture/language/geographical barrier, but I think it's more that you simply see it one very narrow way and aren't choosing to take the facts into consideration.

In my opinion, the OP has not only made all sorts of reasonable attempts to contact and communicate with the builder, he's actually be quite patient. When someone agrees to do work for you and accepts your money he absolutely owes you replies to your emails and phone calls - period. It's not the customer's responsibility to fly across the country, knock on your door and ask you to please pick up your phone or reply to your emails. If anything, it's the opposite - the builder should be making every attempt to contact and keep his customer in the know and happy.

I agree that prematurely slamming a builder who may be a little less than professional in his communications is over the line, but that's certainly not what's been happening here.
 
#58
Hi gang,
sorry for the absence. This is the original poster, bass arrived yesterday.
I figured I'd walk on broken glass alone for a while playing the email politics I was playing with the builder. Apparently it worked.
The bass is very nice-It plays like a dream. The sound is both clear and punchy which is what I was looking for in a classic Fender clone 5 string.
Bass is not exactly as ordered. While I'm not exactly thrilled about this, its about 87% to spec.
For those of you who know what to look for based on the hints in this thread I will be reviewing the bass on Harmony Central sometime this week as *******bass 5 string P/J Jazz clone".
The dude is bi-polar at best. Thankfully his builds are most of what he claims they will be, I think this will be my main club axe for some time to come.
Just a side note- after this experience I'm planning a Warmoth assembly sometime in the near future. At least if the assembler (me) is a jerk I will have no one to blame but myself!
Thanks for the support here and it turns out I have a bass I really love.
Nukes
 

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