Frustrated with bass action.

[ericmknight1906]

Or do it yourself, it's not rocket science.

Well, I have been doing it myself lately. But I just can't get it like I want it. I don't want to shave the nut because the string barely clear the first 3 or 4 frets. I've done many adjustments on the truss rod and the bridge and still can't get anything to my satisfaction.

The "self proclaimed" luthier that set up my bass when I purchased it didn't do so hot. His idea of low action was 10 millimeters. Got to be kidding me.

I guess I need to learn more about this fret dressing and mandolin frets idea.

 

[cnltb]

I've read that most players gravitate to a higher action as they get older. It's usually the younger guys who think that they need it low to make playing easier. Not sure how much truth there is in that, but I know I quit trying to do the super-low thing a few years back, and I after making some technique adjustments to compensate I feel the end result is infinitely better. Bass sounds better, feels better, and allows me room to do all sorts of things without a bunch of clackety sounds.

Low action is not required for speed either. I read a couple years back that Patitucci had started using a high action on his basses in combination with half-round strings. He gets all the speed he needs. Roger Sadowsky commented that Marcus Miller used to use a low action earlier in his career, but gravitated towards a higher action now so that he could get better range and dynamics out of the instrument. By the specs Roger listed for setting up Miller's bass, it was a fairly medium action that you would get from on a bass coming from the manufacturer.

I will say that, while simply quoting numbers for action can be misleading from instrument to instrument, knowing the numbers for YOUR bass gives you a point of reference and something to work with over time such that doing your own setups becomes easier. Having an 18" straightedge to measure relief, and string height gauge to set the action allows you to experiment accurately with different settings, write down what you like and don't like, and then make minor adjustments over time to get where you want to be. Those can be picked up at Stewart MacDonald very easily, and I think they greatly shorten the learning curve for doing your own setups. Arbitrarily making relief adjustments and raising/lowering the bridge saddles will lead to hit or miss setups, and you'll always be frustrated.

IMHO.

GOOD POST ,THIS!!
+1
I find that even string hight from nut to the end of the board helps overall comfort.
I ended up raising the nut and it feels a lot better now.

 

[spade2you]

Well, I'm not the "dig in" type of player. I have a light touch and I usually like tight string spacing. For me, the lower the action, the faster and smoother I can play. To me, extremely low action would be 2.5 to 3mm for the entire length of the fretboard (with no buzz anywhere).

I don't it's feasible to have uniform action throughout the fingerboard. There should be a gradual increase as you move down the fingerboard.

 

[Surly]

What Eublet says, combined with the fact that I pick hard, and the fact that I only went to a tech once and felt like I wasted $60, are all reasons why i do my own setups.

 

[Spinal Tapper]

Or do it yourself, it's not rocket science.

It certainly isn't rocket science, but when you have a nice bass that you don't want to mess up, the smart thing is to take it to someone who knows what they're doing.

The last thing I'd hate to see is someone strip their truss rod because they turned it incorrectly.

I just recently started to mess with the action on a couple of my basses that I don't play as often, it's not hard if you go slow and be patient, but for my main playing bass, I take her in to the doctor twice a year for the works

 

[Eublet]

I don't it's feasible to have uniform action throughout the fingerboard. There should be a gradual increase as you move down the fingerboard.

Agreed. 3 MM taken at the nut would be high and make for very uncomfortable playing in the "meat and potatotes" positions.

As for the nut, it can have a huge impact on the playability of an instruments. Most nuts aren't shaped correctly that I see. I wish there was a good solution out there for varying nut height. (Yes, I'm aware of the Warwick solutions, in all versions, and I'm not impressed with them.) Really, I think the Zero-fret is the best solution out there for even, comfortable playing. Still, you have to have some variation in string height along the fretboard, with some amount of relief. A good setup makes a world of difference, and the nut is often neglected by home setups.

 

[ericmknight1906]

well right now i'm about 2.5mm at the 3rd fret and about 4.5 at the 12th fret. the nice thing about these tobias' is that the bridge is fully adjustable in all directions. i'm going to play with it some more and see what happens. Can moving the saddles forward or backwards affect the action?

 

[Fetusyolk]

the bass with the lowest action i've ever played was a Lakland. It was so stupid low it was actually cumbersome. no buzz though.

i still prefer fender (my hands just didn't like the feel for some reason)

 

[Fetusyolk]

well right now i'm about 2.5mm at the 3rd fret and about 4.5 at the 12th fret. the nice thing about these tobias' is that the bridge is fully adjustable in all directions. i'm going to play with it some more and see what happens. Can moving the saddles forward or backwards affect the action?

as far as i know, even if it may adjust the action a miniscule amount, the lack of proper intonation will not be worth it

 

[Eublet]

well right now i'm about 2.5mm at the 3rd fret and about 4.5 at the 12th fret. the nice thing about these tobias' is that the bridge is fully adjustable in all directions. i'm going to play with it some more and see what happens. Can moving the saddles forward or backwards affect the action?

Adjusting the saddles forward or backward is done specifically to adjust the intonation of the instrument. It's the last thing you do after you adjust the nut, the relief, and then the action.

With all due respect, it sounds like you aren't sure of what you are doing, or of what needs to be done to correctly get a good setup. As such, I definitely wouldn't recommend looking at other instruments becaus of what you percieve to be an issue with the action your Tobias. Barring any physical defects, a knowledgable and experienced player/lutheir should be able to setup that instrument and have it play beautifully. I would suggest you take it to someone who can do that, or if you know someone that you can trust and knows what they are doing, have them show you how to set things up.

 

[cnltb]

I don't it's feasible to have uniform action throughout the fingerboard. There should be a gradual increase as you move down the fingerboard.

Why?

I don't think so.
I used to have that( as most basses do) but feel it is considerably more comfortable to have even action.
It takes a little getting used to( as most new things) but was worth it to me.

 

[spade2you]

Why?

I don't think so.
I used to have that( as most basses do) but feel it is considerably more comfortable to have even action.
It takes a little getting used to( as most new things) but was worth it to me.

Without having a fairly nut height, the strings running parallel to the fingerboard would result in the string catching the highest fret any time you hit all other frets. I highly doubt you have the same action on the first and last fret.

 

[cnltb]

Without having a fairly nut height, the strings running parallel to the fingerboard would result in the string catching the highest fret any time you hit all other frets. I highly doubt you have the same action on the first and last fret.

If the set up is right it is possible. That includes a slightly higher nut and a fairly straight neck. But you are right, in my case the difference between nut and the 29th fret( measured from the fingerboard rather than the crown of the fret) is still just under 0,5mm .

 

[ericmknight1906]

Adjusting the saddles forward or backward is done specifically to adjust the intonation of the instrument. It's the last thing you do after you adjust the nut, the relief, and then the action.

With all due respect, it sounds like you aren't sure of what you are doing, or of what needs to be done to correctly get a good setup. As such, I definitely wouldn't recommend looking at other instruments becaus of what you percieve to be an issue with the action your Tobias. Barring any physical defects, a knowledgable and experienced player/lutheir should be able to setup that instrument and have it play beautifully. I would suggest you take it to someone who can do that, or if you know someone that you can trust and knows what they are doing, have them show you how to set things up.

I didn't make myself clear on my last post.
I understand that adjusting the bridge forwards and backwards affects the intonation. I was asking if it will also affect the action?

 

[cnltb]

I didn't make myself clear on my last post.
I understand that adjusting the bridge forwards and backwards affects the intonation. I was asking if it will also affect the action?

No.
It shouldn't.

 

[Eublet]

I didn't make myself clear on my last post.
I understand that adjusting the bridge forwards and backwards affects the intonation. I was asking if it will also affect the action?

My point is that it would change the intonation of the bass, so even if it did affect the action, why would you use it for such? How could you use it as such since it would cause the instrument to play out of tune?

As for nut height and equal string action across the bass, that would make the instrument harder to play since it would mean the strings are higher down in the lower registers than they need to be. You can get 3mm action at the 12th fret without needing that kind of height at the 1st fret. Having an extra high nut offers nothing in terms of playability.

Honestly, though, if you've never experienced a first class setup on a decent quality bass, a lot of the things that people are saying in this thread might not have as much value. But it really can mean the difference between loving or hating a given instrument. And going back to the OP and the Tobias, that instrument should be able to be setup such that it plays like a dream! Neck profile aside, action should be able to be as good as most any instrument out there as long as there are no neck defects or unusually uneven frets.

 

[cnltb]

Yes.
The higher nut( in my case 2.5mm from the board) takes a little getting used to but is very manageable and the overall improvement is quite worth it.
But of course a good set up for me may well be not so good for you.
All , as usual boils down to personal preference.

What will always help th is level frets and a working truss rod, as well as a bridge that is at the right place.
A tuner when intonating the instrument does also come in handy.

 

[ericmknight1906]

My point is that it would change the intonation of the bass, so even if it did affect the action, why would you use it for such? How could you use it as such since it would cause the instrument to play out of tune?

As for nut height and equal string action across the bass, that would make the instrument harder to play since it would mean the strings are higher down in the lower registers than they need to be. You can get 3mm action at the 12th fret without needing that kind of height at the 1st fret. Having an extra high nut offers nothing in terms of playability.

Honestly, though, if you've never experienced a first class setup on a decent quality bass, a lot of the things that people are saying in this thread might not have as much value. But it really can mean the difference between loving or hating a given instrument. And going back to the OP and the Tobias, that instrument should be able to be setup such that it plays like a dream! Neck profile aside, action should be able to be as good as most any instrument out there as long as there are no neck defects or unusually uneven frets.

There are no defects on the bass that I can see. Maybe I just thought I knew what I was doing but I really don't. I have no idea what a world class setup is. What will they do besides adjusting the bridge and truss rod? I already do that.
I am more than willing to pay anyone $100 that can give me a world class setup. I also value everyone's opinion on this board. I thank you all for your input.

 

[cnltb]

Have you had the frets leveled and crowned?
The nut is cut well?
That may also help.
Pickup hight adjustment is part of a full set up as well, I recon.

 

[KPAX]

I've owned quite a few basses and they're all different. You can have a really good fretjob done but due to the neck characteristics and how it responds to adjustment, every bass is unique - even among the exact same models.
I used to be a low action / minimal fretbuzz fanatic but now I don't mind some fretbuzz (I still like relatively low action). As long as the notes don't buzz to the point that they're weak, I like the growl.
I've watched videos of Geddy and Flea in situations where they were unplugged and warming up and their basses buzzed like a mother. It's part of their sound. Listen to some of the isolated tracks that are linked to on TB. You can hear a lot of buzz. To the extent I can even notice it in a band mix, it sounds GOOD to me - that's my opinion.
But if it's a big deal, play a bunch at stores until you find one that fits the bill. I really haven't noticed any one brand that stands out for having the lowest buzz with low action. Except maybe Modulus. if you don't mind the sound of a hollow plastic neck, maybe that's the bass.
I used to have a Flea bass with a very stable neck with low action and low buzz.