Frustrated with bass action.

[Grissle]

"What will they do besides adjusting the bridge and truss rod?"

The nut... the other third of the equation, it plays a BIG! role, sometimes dramatically depending of course on the initial state of the little bugger.

 

[Eublet]

There are no defects on the bass that I can see. Maybe I just thought I knew what I was doing but I really don't. I have no idea what a world class setup is. What will they do besides adjusting the bridge and truss rod? I already do that.
I am more than willing to pay anyone $100 that can give me a world class setup. I also value everyone's opinion on this board. I thank you all for your input.

The trick that comes from experience is knowing how adjusting one thing effects the other. Setting the right amount of relief is critical, and you need more or less relief depending on how the action is set. Of course, playing style affects the kind of setup you SHOULD have on the bass. Some folks play like a gorilla, but want a setup for Tinkerbell. It doesn't work that way.

A good setup also means they notice any unusual fret uneveness that could cause problems. They might level a fret or two it it's warranted. If things are really out of whack, then a complete fret job might be in order. Some basses need neck-pocket work or shims to get a proper setup. Some basses, when you turn the truss rod, have an immediate effect. Others settle in over a day or two such that an overadjustment that worked well on day 1 makes the bass impossible to play by day 2 or 3. Where I live, a small, thin necked jazz bass might play great on Friday, and then horrible on Sunday because the maple neck soaked in a bunch of moisture in the air. A bass with a poly coated neck might not have such issues, or one with graphite reinforcements.

There are just a lot of factors.

Let me ask you this. Do you know how much relief you have/like in your neck? If you can't answer that, then consistantly getting a great setup yourself is probably difficult. I know that some guys will say they just feel it. Most of them have been playing for years and years however. Relief is usually measured in thousands of an inch. If the nut is slotted correctly, then get the relief set, then adjust the action.

Again, having the right tools to measure all these things allows you to have a point of reference, and when things shift because of weather or something else, then it's easy to get it right back where you like it. Different strings affect what those settings may be. Hi-beams or Sunbeams are going to need a higher action typically than Fender nickels.

 

[mcnach]

i have two newer fenders that i wanted the action as low as i could get them.took
them in had them set up ,the action was low but i wanted it lower so i had the frets
leveled and these basses play fantastic.the point im trying to make is that you can
get your bass where you want it you need to discuss these options with whoever
you trust toi work on your basses.to have the fret work done on one of my basses
cost me 60 bucks and it plays beautiful,so dont give up,what might be good action
for one guy might not be good for you and if you really like the bass you need to get it set up the way you want it,t

Well said.

 

[aznrambo481]

There are a whole lot of replies already, so sorry if I repeat.

To answer your original question: The best thing you can get if a fret crown. Level frets give you the best plane on which to put a good setup. Considering fret buzz is caused by the strings hitting the frets, you should be able to see that well-maintained level frets would be my first thing to look for. That being said, look for basses that are known for good Quality Control and setups out of the factory unless you want to pay for the fret crown yourself (50-100 bucks?)

 

[mcnach]

What will they do besides adjusting the bridge and truss rod? I already do that.
I am more than willing to pay anyone $100 that can give me a world class setup. I also value everyone's opinion on this board. I thank you all for your input.

Fret levelling, for starters.
You will not notice neven frets normally unless they're way off, until you flatten the neck and check properly. An experienced tech will notice at once. If there are some uneven frets, the bass will buzz at higher action than it could... depending on how many frets are uneven, the extent of it, and where the frets are located, you will notice the problem more or less.

Like most things regarding set-up, it's not hard in theory... but it takes practice to do it well and fast. Find a *good* tech. In my case, I found a luthier who does this kind of thing too... he builds guitars from scratch (acoustic), he knows what he's doing... and he gets better results than I can in about 10% of the time it would take me... so I happily pay him.

 

[joeyl]

my MIA Jazz cannot have low action because the neck has a big forward bow (yes it can do that even with graphite bars) Also the truss rod nut has compressed the wood, and it needs washers to do any kind of work.
You cannot fix that kind of neck with a shim or lowering the saddles (strings choke around the 15th fret) My Squier made in Korea with the skunk stripe and no reinforcements is straight and stiff, and has low action. So I guess with production instruments it is hit and miss, depends on the quality of the woods etc. My Warmoth necks are super stable due to the modern truss rod and steel bars. I would not consider anything else now.... Dunno about the stability of the newer Fenders.

Musicmans have a nice neck, I guess due to more carefully chosen woods maybe, not sure, but I have yet to play a Stingray with a weak neck...

 

[Surly]

Just got done changing strings and setting up my P-bass. This is like the 4th time I've done it per Fender's instructions on their website. You need some basic tools and shims, I use drill bits 5/64", 7/64", etc, and a tuner. It's not that hard with a little practice, and you will probably put more care into it than a tech. You can also play it a bit, and recheck the feel. I don't think it is that big of a deal.

Besides, you may need to do this every other month or so and who wants to pay $50-60 everytime? That will get old.

 

[ericmknight1906]

There are just a lot of factors.

Let me ask you this. Do you know how much relief you have/like in your neck? If you can't answer that, then consistantly getting a great setup yourself is probably difficult.

Correct me if i'm wrong but the way I checked my relief, I pressed down at the 4th fret and about the 14th fret(or close to the base of the neck) and i looked at everything in between. By just eyeing, it looked like about .25 mm between the top of the fret and bottom of the B string. I couldn't even get a business card between the two.

Again, having the right tools to measure all these things allows you to have a point of reference, and when things shift because of weather or something else, then it's easy to get it right back where you like it. Different strings affect what those settings may be. Hi-beams or Sunbeams are going to need a higher action typically than Fender nickels.

I understand. With all of these factors, I guess I better take it to a professional. But then again, this sounds like something I could do myself with the right tools. I wonder if they make Luthier starter kits?

 

[Eublet]

Correct me if i'm wrong but the way I checked my relief, I pressed down at the 4th fret and about the 14th fret(or close to the base of the neck) and i looked at everything in between. By just eyeing, it looked like about .25 mm between the top of the fret and bottom of the B string. I couldn't even get a business card between the two.

It's all relative to how you play. Different luthiers will measure action in different ways. Some will fret the bass at the 1st and 12th fret, and take the measurement over the crown of the 6th. Others will fret at the 1st and last fret, and take a measurement at the 12th fret. Still others might use a method like you are describing. Even more precise is to use a straitedge or specific relief tool to get the measurement.

I understand. With all of these factors, I guess I better take it to a professional. But then again, this sounds like something I could do myself with the right tools. I wonder if they make Luthier starter kits?

If you want to do it yourself, then having someone teach you is the best thing to do. Paying a local professional might not accomplish that, unless you have the right tools to measure yourself. If so, then when he sets it up, play with it a bit, and have him tweak until you get something you like. Take measurements, and then you have your reference point. And yes, you can buy a basic Setup Kit from the Stewart MacDonald website. It comes with a straight edge, action guage, and a set of radiused string guages. It's less than $100 from memory. Personally I think the radiused string tool isn't necessary, but the 18" straight edge and action guage are indespensible.

 

[Woodwolf]

It's easy to get lost in the technical aspects of neck Action and possible adjustments and mods? When dealing with a Luthier or Tech there will be a communication aspect to deal with. Read the BP article about Anthony Jackson and how many basses it took from scratch, to get something right. Low action tends to sound like low action. It could be that the sound you want and the instrument you have don't match regardless of setup or neck work or strings? A person could spend a lot of time and money only to realize this afterwards?

 

[ericmknight1906]

Thank you all for your input. I took my Tobias to a local Luthier. After he examined it, he determined that my problem was due to uneven frets and this could have possibly been the reason for my low action problems. He is using some device similiar to a "fret rocker??" to determined where the bad frets are. I'm dropping it off tmw. He will charge $50 +/- a few dollars depending on the amount of work that needs to be done. He agrees with a lot of you posters that stated that a professional setup should be attempted before swapping a bass for another. You won't get too much better that a Tobias Growler. Thanks all.

He also advised that Mandolin frets would be a bad idea and would kill the tone. Mandolin frets are too close to the wood and wouldn't give the strings enough room to vibrate. These frets would actually kill the tone on a bass. As far as action, the size of the fretwire doesn't matter. its all about them being even all the way down the fretboard.

 

[Eublet]

Thank you all for your input. I took my Tobias to a local Luthier. After he examined it, he determined that my problem was due to uneven frets and this could have possibly been the reason for my low action problems. He is using some device similiar to a "fret rocker??" to determined where the bad frets are. I'm dropping it off tmw. He will charge $50 +/- a few dollars depending on the amount of work that needs to be done. He agrees with a lot of you posters that stated that a professional setup should be attempted before swapping a bass for another. You won't get too much better that a Tobias Growler. Thanks all.

He also advised that Mandolin frets would be a bad idea and would kill the tone. Mandolin frets are too close to the wood and wouldn't give the strings enough room to vibrate. These frets would actually kill the tone on a bass. As far as action, the size of the fretwire doesn't matter. its all about them being even all the way down the fretboard.

There you go! And yes, you can buy a fret rocker at Stewart MacDonald as well. An easy way to check for fret height issues is to just use your hands. Pick any three adjacent frets, and then fret the two outside frets with your left hand. In other words, you'll have three frets inbetween your two fingers. Then tap on the string over that middle fret. There should be a miniscule amount of space between the fret and the string such that it makes a slight ticking noise. If the string is already touching the fret, then either that fret is too high, or the fret(s) next to it are too low. Do that up and down the neck and you can check for fret problems.

 

[carlo3874]

Hello everyone!

I'm a big sucker for low action and I was considering ordering this from :

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I wonder if anyone has use this or has a opinion.

 

[rad87gn]

I'm still searching for a bass with extremely low action , no fret buzz and even sounding tone all the way up the neck. I currently have a Tobias Growler B 5 string but the more I play it the more I hate it. It's okay, but the action is still too high and I don't like the sound of the Bartolini's (too woody) There are a couple other possibilites that I have my eye on but I'd like to get opinions from past/current owners or people who have played either of these.



For low action and ease of playability, and even tone, which would you prefer?

If you can recommend one that's not on the my very limited pole, then please chime up. And they have to be 5 strings.

I have a Tobias Growler 4-string, Killer B 5-string, Renegade 4-string, and Classic 5-string. All of them have VERY low action and play/sound awesome? Sounds great in the mix. Once adjusted I never seem to have to adjust them again. Sounds like you need help with setup!

I also have Fender Jazz basses (1 4-string Deluxe, 1 4-string fretless, 1 Jazz Custom Shop), Music Man basses (1 4-string '90 Sting Ray, 1 4-string '78 Sting Ray, and 1 '00 Fretless Sting Ray) and they all have very low action.

I also have a ton of other good basses all with low action. I'd go to your favorite guitar shop and get to be good friends with the guy that does setup. My guy at my local shop taught me how to setup all my own basses like I want them. Takes time but is very worth it!