Frustrations with live sound

[funkybass]

I play at church and the live sounds are getting on my nerves. Everyone but me and the drummer plays thru the p.a. I use a hartke hydrive 410 and lh1000 head. The problem is the volume I can play at I can't hear high notes, they just blend in and you can't hear them. Notes on the d and g strings do this on my American p an SR. Is there something I can do to help this? The soundman claims it's fine out in the audience. I've thought about buying a wireless and playing out in a backpew at practice to hear how it sounds. Can someone reccomemmd a decent one?

 

[fokof]

Start by putting your amp to your ears level or tilt it so it shoots straight at your head. (ears)

 

[jtc_hunter]

I bought a used Shure T4G off of Ebay and it works great. I can do 3 gigs (total round 120 songs on one 9 volt battery. About 100' range and true tone. I think I paid around $120 for the package.

 

[D.A.R.K.]

you might not like the house mix, but isn't it about the message?
have some "faith" in your sound guy.
waka-waka

 

[HeadyVan Halen]

Couple things...also play Hartke 4x10 (not hydrive though, paper) and also have problems with sound at church some days..One thing I have noticed (maybe in cranium) but Hartke's are finicky sometimes. There are somedays when the tone is 'there' and other days it sounds like a 15 watt crate...Don't know could be the bass also

What I've done is:
A. Play with your volume...put the bass wide open and the pre and master low, if that doesn't help..then put the bass lower and boost your pre and master (may-may not help)

B. Adjust your EQ. When you find one you like, take a picture with your camera phone..don't have one, write it down. It will save a bunch of time later..Boost your 'HIGH' control knob on the amp

C. Start from scratch...run everything flat..slowly adjust EQ until you find the problem or the solution..try it at or around the level you usually play at. No use in finding your tone at volume 3 when you play at 7...it will change slighty

D. All else fails, turn the volume down and FAKE IT like yours truly does on songs I don't know...tell the B3 player to get his feet going

 

[3506string]

My guess is that you've got to much low end or not enough mids in your signal. You have to eq for the mix. Most bassist tend to scoop out their mids and or boost low end when setting up which probably sounds when playing by yourself but doesn't stand a chance in a busy church mix.

 

[Stumbo]

..... I can't hear high notes, they just blend in and you can't hear them..

Start by putting your amp to your ears level or tilt it so it shoots straight at your head. (ears)

+10
If you ever change rigs, try two 2x10 and stacking them vertically. There are many threads on TB about this. Note only will you hear yourself better, you'll get better dispersion. Cabs where the speakers are not vertically stacked create cancellations of mid/high frequencies. Bill Fitzmaurice expounds on this topic in many TB threads.

The sound man claims it's fine out in the audience.

There's a big difference between hearing yourself on stage and FOH. If the sound guy says it's fine FOH, then it is.

I've thought about buying a wireless and playing out in a back pew at practice to hear how it sounds.

That's a good idea for any type of gig.

You can try raising the pickup on the D and G side if they are actually out of balance.

I looked up your amp's specs:

* 2 x 500 watts of power, 1000 watts bridged mono
* Classic 12AX7 High Voltage Class-A tube preamp circuit
* Bass and Treble Shelving, plus mid-peak EQ controls
* Selectable brite switch for added high frequency response
* Selectable limiter switch with LED indicator

Since it has two power amps, you could set up a small bass cab in front of you and use it to monitor yourself. Your head has a balance control for individual cab volume. Or maybe stack another cab on top of it.

IMO, tilting your cab and directing the sound to your cranium would be the easiest (and cheapest) to test. The further you can stand in front of your cab, the better. Possibly try moving to different positions (from side to side) on the stage to see if that helps.

 

[Muaguana]

^ Stumbo's da man here.

It just sounds like you need a monitor with its own mix for yourself. That's usually what sound people do to make the musicians onstage happy and not tamper with what works for the audience.

All else fails... get an MXR 10-band graphic EQ pedal (since the LH1000 heads have 3-band only) and sculpt away. Might peeve the sound guy, though.

 

[Petebass]

My guess is that you've got to much low end or not enough mids in your signal. You have to eq for the mix. Most bassist tend to scoop out their mids and or boost low end when setting up which probably sounds when playing by yourself but doesn't stand a chance in a busy church mix.

+100. I read a review on that amp of yours which included frequency response measurements. That amp has a traditional Fender tone stack. To get flat frequency response from this sort of tone stack, the Eq position required is Bass and Treble at 11 o'clock, Mids at 5 O'clock all the way up. In other words, the mid control is "cut only". With the Eq set to look flat (everything at 12 o'clock), there is actually quite a large mid scoop happening without you knowing it.

It sounds great on it's own, but in a band environment, and at high SPL levels, the absence of mids is problematic.

 

[musicman7722]

Headphones or IEM

 

[funkybass]

One thing I should mention is since I don't run thru thr P.A. The sound man is only concerned with my volume being too loud. I'll play with settings. I usually set my stingray flat, amp bass at 12,o'clock, mid and treble at 2 o'clock or so. I'll fool around with it. Should I set my amp eq and bass eq to the same?

 

[Petebass]

Should I set my amp eq and bass eq to the same?

There's no reason to do so. EQing is best done with your ears, not your eyes. In fact close your eyes when you EQ so you have no idea where the knobs are positioned.

 

[MNAirHead]

Sounds like a good situation to go IEM.. many churches are sound black holes..

You can pick up a Rolls PM for about $100.. you'll need some cords... this becomes your monitor and DI box.

 

[Stumbo]

To get flat frequency response from this sort of tone stack, the Eq position required is Bass and Treble at 11 o'clock, Mids at 5 O'clock all the way up. In other words, the mid control is "cut only".

+100

Try it with these settings.

 

[funkybass]

+100. With the Eq set to look flat (everything at 12 o'clock), there is actually quite a large mid scoop happening without you knowing it.

QUOTE]

Does this mean the most mid you can actually set the amp to is half? If so I can compensate on the rays eq.

 

[JTE]

Well, if it's based on the classic Fender tone stack, then the control interact. But if you set the mid control all the way clockwise, that's the maximum mids the preamp will deliver. Any movement away from max CW cuts mids. And mids are very critical. If it sounds a bit honky and middy to you when you're playing all by yourself, you've probably got a great start on a sound that'll sit in the mix wonderfully.

See, the mid cut and boosting the highs and the lows does two things to your sound, both terrible. First, the boosting of the lows takes a lot of power, so your amp runs out of headroom faster. Second, by cutting the critical mids, you're notching out the part that the ears hear best, and the part that makes YOUR bass sound like YOUR bass.

I'd start with the 'Ray's EQ set flat, and the amp set as Stumbo said (bass & treble at 11:00 o'clock, mid range knob all the way open). LISTEN closely as you play something that's what you're REALLY going to play for most of the service. You have to determine carefully if it needs more or less of something. That's important, and something a LOT of people don't know. If it sounds muffled, you have to figure out if it's too much bass or not enough highs. And you're generally better off cutting some frequency than boosting something else.

Try doing this at rehearsal, or come in early to rehearsal and play along to a recording so you can see how your EQ changes fit into a mix.

John

 

[KeithAlanK]

+100. With the Eq set to look flat (everything at 12 o'clock), there is actually quite a large mid scoop happening without you knowing it.

Does this mean the most mid you can actually set the amp to is half? If so I can compensate on the rays eq.

You haven't tried this before now?