Yeah I figured as much too, I can probably just take it out if need be, a little worried about unbolting a neck that old etc, but I don’t think it’ll explode from doing so
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Full pocket vs partial shim
- Thread starter Mrtoodamnsabre
- Start date
Yeah I figured as much too, I can probably just take it out if need be, a little worried about unbolting a neck that old etc, but I don’t think it’ll explode from doing so
I have been making/using full pocket shims and partial shims for decades. I think you may be over thinking this at this point, did the full pocket shim they used get the job done? If so play away...
I get it back Saturday! But yeah pretty much no difference in sound I’d imagine! It should be fine! Just passing time lolI have been making/using full pocket shims and partial shims for decades. I think you may be over thinking this at this point, did the full pocket shim they used get the job done? If so play away...
In that case you could do a little research on the use of the micro-tilt, it could serve you well down the road at some point, using the micro tilt (when necessary) is a perfectly viable option with zero degradation of tone/sustain...
You wouldn’t hear anything different either way if that’s what you are concerned about. Enjoy the bass!
FWIW factory shims were very common on vintage Fenders.
Early 60's looked like this:
Later 60's like this - and were in different colors depending on thickness:
As long as it works, I wouldn’t give it a second thought either way. I see no reason to do a full pocket shim, either, But it’s what you’ve got and all that matters is it works.
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You've already got a full shim and want to replace it with a partial shim? Why????
A partial shim will work just fine but it has potential issues and will always be the fast&cheap way to do a shim if you're not willing to pay for (or do) the extra work involved with a full shim. I can't see a single reason for replacing a full shim with a partial shim. Am I missing something here???
A partial shim will work just fine but it has potential issues and will always be the fast&cheap way to do a shim if you're not willing to pay for (or do) the extra work involved with a full shim. I can't see a single reason for replacing a full shim with a partial shim. Am I missing something here???
Shims are usually added when the string saddles are bottomed-out.
Riis
Riis
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Maybe this is where all the Fender ski jumps come from, lol. Newer Fender were (are?) shimmed too. My AVRI 63 came with a partial shim from the factory (and did in fact have a tiny bit of lift near the end of the fretboard... it was a bass that had been in storage at a dealer for years and I got it long after the AVRIs were discontinued). The shim was just a strip of paper with some company logo on it (not Fender).
As for a difference in tone between full/partial shim it should be marginal or non-existent. Personally I don't even care (and I'm usually EXTREMELY picky about things that may affect the tone of an instrument). There are certainly lots of other things I would be FAR more worried about with a bass guitar, like not being able to play above the 12th fret because of a design flaw...
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In fairness, I've seen ski jumps on other older non-Fender bolt on basses that didn't have shims - I just did that repair on my '65 Italian Meazzi bass - but it might still be a factor!
Agree, pickup warble should be able to be fixed just by lowering the pickups.
“common” vs “standard”. Big difference. I’ve seen them as well, and owned a jazz with one, but I’d be shocked to see that even Fender would insert shims in Fender neck pockets as standard. Factory fix for a production problem, ok.
Full pocket makes mechanical sense as it fully supports the neck where the most pressure is being applied thru string tension and the screws....,but, does it matter?...does it affect tone?...I doubt it on both counts.
I have a P bass with a partial shim...it neither has neck hump and it sounds great.
I have a P bass with a partial shim...it neither has neck hump and it sounds great.
Sometimes, shimming is necessary to lower the action by making a micro adjustment to an instrument’s string path geometry. A thin partial shim at the heel end of the neck pocket ( furthest end of the pocket from the nut) will will often have a more noticeable effect than a similar shim at the other end of the pocket or a full shim. Correctly done, including a set up afterwards, neither will make a perceptible difference to the sound of the bass, over and above any changes normally associated with higher or lower action.
Hard to say where that dividing line is though. I worked in a vintage shop and a warranty repair shop. I'd say that more often than not the 60's Fenders (guitars and basses) had shims - while anecdotal, that was a very large sample group.
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I'll wade in but I'm sure there are many more qualified. When the saddles are bottomed out a fairly thin partial shim at the back of the neck pocket will have a significant impact on how much more you can raise the saddles. To achieve the same height difference at the saddles with a full pocket shim it would have to be a fair bit thicker. If you're having to shim at home its probably way easier to find a piece of thin, hard material the right thickness for a partial shim.
As for the ski jump thing - the shim needs to have the neck screws go through it if its going to be perfectly stable. You can buy tapered shims like this but there are a lot of plastics used in packaging that are slightly compressable and therefore make great shims which can also be easily doubled over and stepped to mimic tapered shims. A thick little strip of packing behind the screws at the very back of the neck pocket will risk twisting the base of the neck creating a ski jump over time - and before you ski-jump it you'll maybe strip the threads in the neck too.
As for the ski jump thing - the shim needs to have the neck screws go through it if its going to be perfectly stable. You can buy tapered shims like this but there are a lot of plastics used in packaging that are slightly compressable and therefore make great shims which can also be easily doubled over and stepped to mimic tapered shims. A thick little strip of packing behind the screws at the very back of the neck pocket will risk twisting the base of the neck creating a ski jump over time - and before you ski-jump it you'll maybe strip the threads in the neck too.
I usually reference the observations & work here: Getting the Facts about Ski Jumps
It's an interesting read and @Turnaround makes a compelling argument.
Riis
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Whether partial shims create ski jumps or not may be up for debate but I don't agree with "find another guy". Why drop someone who clearly wanted to do this right? Anyone who knows how to use a screwdriver and a pair of scissors should be able to make a partial shim on a bolt-on instrument. If I paid a luthier to shim a bass I would expect a full pocket shim. I would feel scammed if I paid a luthier for a shim and the bass came back with a just strip of paper in the neck pocket. The guy clearly wanted to do this properly so why find another guy unless of course the OP clearly stated that he wanted the cheapest possible solution (which he could easily have done himself).
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Actually, I was more concerned that the bass was returned from repair with the observation / complaint that the bass can not be played above the 12th fret which is not a minor niggle IMO. Personally, I don't care what type of shim was employed...it's the OP's bass and that's between him and the repair-guy. I disagree with the statement "partial shims create ski jumps" as things like this have the tendency to be embraced as chapter & verse.
Riis
