So to get the answer, there’s probably no difference in sound between the two right? I’d imagine that if it’s shimmed it’s shimmed. Luthier believes partial shims create ski jumps, the bass I have has strong magnets and can’t be played above the 12th fret anyways so I’m not worried, you hear a lot of music with partial shims and never notice but full pocket shims are new, what do you think. Little frustrated that they did a full pocket instead of a partial but I’m not really mad and probably don’t know as much as them, just seeing if the shim either partial or full makes any difference, honestly might just take it out and microtilt it
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Full pocket vs partial shim
- Thread starter Mrtoodamnsabre
- Start date
Partial shim works 99.9% of the time. Why did they shim? Can’t play above 12th fret because of magnet strength?!?
Riis
Riis
They didn’t wanna do microtilt, I think full pocket was a preference based on what they believe caused ski jumps. It’s an old bass, but one of the design flaws is that the pickups gotta be lowered considerably or you can settle for not playing above the 14th fret cause the warbles!
Lower the pickups. Shims neither create nor cure ski-jumps. Find another guy.
Riis
Riis
They put in a full pocket shim, so they did shim it, but they opted for a full pocket because they believed a partial would ski jump it, I’m confused but it’s done and if there’s no sound difference between the two it might not matter
Action was high, and the neck had a microtilt mechanism in it so it wasn’t factory shimmed beforehand, the luthier said the shim would be a better joint than the microtilt. I was pro shim too but i wanted a partial so I could get more original wood to original wood contact, but I’m wondering if it actually makes a difference and people opinions on this
Full pocket shim for me if the neck relief/angle is good to go other than needing lower action. A partial shim introduces a new angle, a shim in the lower pocket tilts the neck backwards a shim in the upper part of the pocket tilts the neck forward so to speak.
I do not like the saddle screws to claw at my hand (muting) so if I can't get the action as low as I like without the screws being very close to flush (in the saddles) I use a full pocket shim. Good luck.
I do not like the saddle screws to claw at my hand (muting) so if I can't get the action as low as I like without the screws being very close to flush (in the saddles) I use a full pocket shim. Good luck.
The only reason to shim is to change the action. As c stone says, each variety of shim changes the action in a specific way. Each type of shim is good when called for, but not otherwise.
@Turnaround has an excellent thread on this topic regarding ski slopes. Not the Aspen kind, but the shim kind.
What is a "partial shim"? Use a proper angled full pocket shim if you want to tilt the neck one way or the other. This retains the full area contact between the neck and pocket.
That sounds right,
partial shim is the smaller guy that goes towards the bottom of the neck pocket standard on a factory bass. Was hoping to have maximum original wood to original wood contact as it’s a vintage bass, but also I hear you can’t really hear a difference in shims.
The last statement there I thoroughly believe and all but full pocket shims are new no? The standard for decades and decades was the small little guy in the bottom two bolts, so I sorta trust it more.
partial shim is the smaller guy that goes towards the bottom of the neck pocket standard on a factory bass. Was hoping to have maximum original wood to original wood contact as it’s a vintage bass, but also I hear you can’t really hear a difference in shims.
The last statement there I thoroughly believe and all but full pocket shims are new no? The standard for decades and decades was the small little guy in the bottom two bolts, so I sorta trust it more.
Shims are not standard on factory basses. Where did you get that idea?
It seems no two techs agree, but in this case I'm very confused as to "the magnets being too strong to play above the 12th fret." I can't think of a reason why that would make sense. Can't imagine a scenario where the pick-ups couldn't be lowered to mitigate any issues. I feel like this tech is off base or we need more details.
In terms of a shim, I'm pro full-shim. There isn't any disadvantage I can think of other than it takes more time to get right. I had a partial shim recently and it sapped my tone so much that I took it out. My action was/is too high, but not having my bass sound the way I want drives me more nuts than needing to work harder to get a line right.
I'd be curious what techs/luthiers who do fretboard shims have to say. The ones I've seen are full shims, but I am sure luthiers who work on acoustic instruments also disagree as much as electric luthiers.
In terms of a shim, I'm pro full-shim. There isn't any disadvantage I can think of other than it takes more time to get right. I had a partial shim recently and it sapped my tone so much that I took it out. My action was/is too high, but not having my bass sound the way I want drives me more nuts than needing to work harder to get a line right.
I'd be curious what techs/luthiers who do fretboard shims have to say. The ones I've seen are full shims, but I am sure luthiers who work on acoustic instruments also disagree as much as electric luthiers.
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It’s an old musicman, so one of the reason the early l2000 g&ls moved the pickups from the sabres position to a closer position, and one of the reasons that the ernie ball sabres changed the neck pole pieces to 16 small ones rather than 8 big ones is because the pull of the magnets would interfere with the string vibrations causing a warble on the upper registers of the neck, now I’m fine with this because I don’t play that high up on the neck, and the tone is second to none. If you back up the pickups a ton, you might be able to play up to the 16th without any chorus sound, since I use string mutes and those kill the sustain the higher up on the neck you go anyways, it isn’t a dealbreaker for me. I’m fairly sure the 2h stingrays use deeper pickup cavity’s or it’s a problem with the minihumbuckers of the sabre
So for me, risking a ski slope that would make the highest six frets harder to play isn’t too much of a concern anyways
I have experienced high note "warble" due to pickup magnets affecting the motion of the strings. If the neck geometry was such that the saddles had to be lowered all the way down in order to get the desired action, and the pickups happen to be taller than usual (I've seen some hum-canceling J pickups that are taller than usual) then you might be in a situation where the only way to raise the saddles is to tilt the neck back. I don't know if that's the situation here, but it is a scenario that is possible.
Ah, now this makes much more sense. It was a design flaw.
If the risk of a ski slope (again there's no consensus on this) isn't a big deal, I imagine a partial shim would be ok. Then again, if the extra labor isn't a big deal for you, why not do the full shim?
Honestly I’m keeping details small in the case that the tech reads anything here, not a diss or anything, I love those guys, but was just doing some research to see if I ask for a different shim instead etc
For sure, I’m doing mojo brain, if either type of shim really doesn’t impact the sound a full shim is probably ok. The only doubt I have is that the partial has been around for so long and the full shim seems to be a recent development so I’m less trusting of it, and I specified I’d rather go with a partial, but it is a three bolt neck. it might be hard to avoid gluing in that case or it might be hard to keep a partial shim in place with just one screw holding it on, but they said it was cause of ski jump. Should be fine though
Sounds like they just wanted to over charge for something. If the pickups are too high, lower them. If the Bass has micro tilt, learn how it works. I went shim crazy a few years ago. Have since removed all except the non angled full pocket ones I make to give a little lower string height.
