I've had mine for a few months and have used it live at every show. No issues with tracking. I run it at the end of the train with no comp. Hand muting does help control the effects.
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Future Impact now available!! WAS: deep impact reissue!!! interested?
- Thread starter lokki
- Start date
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
Thank you all for the time to answer me! This is indeed a great place for bass-players. 
It doesn't matter what I try: compressor (I already have the great Keeley in line), nickel-strings (I already play them), flatwound, roundwound, soft and hard playing, nothing seems to change a thing…
BUT if I play extremely careful and stop every note before the next, it seems to be a „little“ better, but not that good, that I want to keep the pedal. Because this means, I am not able to play legato lines. So it is actually me and the way I play. This means, I need to always focus on how I play the pedal as soon as I kick it on? Hm…
@maisbass If I’m honest, your example does not sound like the pedal has good tracking, at least for what I expected from „the best tracking synth-pedal“. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to offend anyone or you, but maybe I was expecting too much from the FI to sound as tight as playing with keys.
I appreciate the help from you all, you are great and there is a german saying that goes: Afterwards you are always smarter. :-D
Now I am.
It doesn't matter what I try: compressor (I already have the great Keeley in line), nickel-strings (I already play them), flatwound, roundwound, soft and hard playing, nothing seems to change a thing…
BUT if I play extremely careful and stop every note before the next, it seems to be a „little“ better, but not that good, that I want to keep the pedal. Because this means, I am not able to play legato lines. So it is actually me and the way I play. This means, I need to always focus on how I play the pedal as soon as I kick it on? Hm…
@maisbass If I’m honest, your example does not sound like the pedal has good tracking, at least for what I expected from „the best tracking synth-pedal“. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to offend anyone or you, but maybe I was expecting too much from the FI to sound as tight as playing with keys.
I appreciate the help from you all, you are great and there is a german saying that goes: Afterwards you are always smarter. :-D
Now I am.
It for sure isn't perfect and legato lines can be tough on some patches, but it's the best synth pedal out there IMHO
Cant wait for the update!!!
Cant wait for the update!!!
There is no device in existence that allows a string player to sound as tight as or as good as a real synth. Keyboards have separate mechanical triggers for every key. These boxes have the complicated task of taking our sloppy analog audio and trying to convert it to pitch and velocity and the myriad of other complexities related to that. It just doesn't work remotely the same, and will never work remotely as fast and fluid as a keyboard.
You need to play to the capabilities of the effect. Monophonic. Clean, solid notes without ghost notes and other embellishments. Clean breaks between the notes if you want reliable VCF retriggering.
Stick it in a live mix, and the audience won't even notice the difference though.
- May 16, 2007
- 3,395
- 4,869
- Disclosures
- Volunteer developer/beta tester with Source Audio, Morningstar Engineering & MORTRIX
The FretTrax system gets a lot closer to a "real" synth in terms of tracking too. But these are specifically built or modded instruments, not a box on the floor. As pedals go, the FI is among the best out there at managing the tracking and producing convincing synth sounds.
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@maisbass If I’m honest, your example does not sound like the pedal has good tracking, at least for what I expected from „the best tracking synth-pedal“. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to offend anyone or you, but maybe I was expecting too much from the FI to sound as tight as playing with keys.
I appreciate the help from you all, you are great and there is a german saying that goes: Afterwards you are always smarter. :-D
Now I am.
I’m not offended at all but I have to admit I’m a bit baffled by your conclusion from the audio I uploaded. I can tell you when I was playing that line it was tracking great. No glitches at all. I also play fast lines with other patches on the FI successfully too but obviously this depends on the patch. As others have said, not every patch performs the same and you need to tailor the parameters to your playing style.
Since you’ve tried everything else perhaps it’s just your playing technique as you stated that isn’t jiving with the pedal. Not every pedal is for everyone. Good luck with your search. I hope you find something that works for you.
As for the FretTraX system. I have that too and there is a definite playing learning curve with that as well. Not every patch you trigger will perform the same. A lot of factors here. Also I should note that the FretTraX system does not have pitch detection which means it won’t detect open strings nor will it detect the playing of consecutive 16th’s of one note. You have to keep fretting the single note on and off to get it to work. Hope that makes sense lol.
@maisbass Maybe I should upload a line I want to record with my best playing possible, post the settings to the patch I used and you can show me that it can be done with great tracking... only if you would like to start the experiment "again". :-D
This would be super useful towards helping you. And audio of the raw bass line and another of the resulting FI audio would be great.
Sure. It would be a learning experience for all of us. Maybe it would help with some insight, myself included my friend. I really hope we could get to the bottom of this for you. It’s such an amazing pedal that is vital to my gig. I couldn’t gig without it. I hope this will be the same for you.
Some patches just don’t refrigger how you think. Even on the actual synth. I’m starting to think this is the issue for him.
I play many lines on a real Moog that simply do not retrigger when you play legato. It is how the synth is. Due to the nature of the synth and filter, playing a Moog model D requires the player to fully release the key and hit it again if they want a the full attack of the note.
If I play fast legato lines in the moog, each note will blur together as one unless I there is a little space of no signal between each one. Any overlap (legato) will not retrigger the filter. The funny thing is that you can set newer ones to retrigger no matter what, but it actually does not sound as good. Especially on slides.
If you want the FI to respond like a real bass, you need to use more of your bass signal and make patches that have more of a blend. I posted a patch request a few weeks back requesting such a sound because I feel that aspect of the pedal has been underestimated.
Apologies on that as I hate asking others to make patches but I have simply been too swamped to fire up the editor and dive in. I fully plan to though. I do think there is a lot of potential for using the FI beyond the usual emulation of classic mono synth sounds. But the reality of those sounds is that they simply do not all trigger like you would expect if you have never played them before on a synth. It is a different, more controlled style of bass playing, regardless if you do if on the keys or on your bass.
I play many lines on a real Moog that simply do not retrigger when you play legato. It is how the synth is. Due to the nature of the synth and filter, playing a Moog model D requires the player to fully release the key and hit it again if they want a the full attack of the note.
If I play fast legato lines in the moog, each note will blur together as one unless I there is a little space of no signal between each one. Any overlap (legato) will not retrigger the filter. The funny thing is that you can set newer ones to retrigger no matter what, but it actually does not sound as good. Especially on slides.
If you want the FI to respond like a real bass, you need to use more of your bass signal and make patches that have more of a blend. I posted a patch request a few weeks back requesting such a sound because I feel that aspect of the pedal has been underestimated.
Apologies on that as I hate asking others to make patches but I have simply been too swamped to fire up the editor and dive in. I fully plan to though. I do think there is a lot of potential for using the FI beyond the usual emulation of classic mono synth sounds. But the reality of those sounds is that they simply do not all trigger like you would expect if you have never played them before on a synth. It is a different, more controlled style of bass playing, regardless if you do if on the keys or on your bass.
No tracking issues on this clip. Well done. Are you using a pick or fingers?
Correct, that's why I mentioned retriggering of VCF in my post.
You really need to separate out the pitch tracking from everything else. Find a patch that is JUST a single voice VCA with instant attack, and no filtering at all. That should illustrate the general pitch tracking and raw performance.
Then add in filters and additional voices and stuff and observe how the perceived performance changes. Many of us have requested a parameter to control the retriggering, as well as true ADSR params, both of which would greatly improve the overall perceived performance of the box IMO. Most of us initially expect it to perform like an extremely responsive envelope filter where basically every note reopens the filter. But this box currently has a really slow retrigger for the filtering so you need specific, audible gaps in the notes and a short VCF decay for the filter to retrigger reliably.
I'm always learning new things about how to use my FI. Playing a live show last weekend, I switched on my 3Leaf Audio Chromatron (envelope filter) for a song. It sits before my FI on my board. The next song we played with 24k Magic, and I turned on my FI patch for that. But I forgot to turn off my Chromatron. But is sounded sooooo good I left it on. Definitely added a juice analog flavor to the patch and the tracking was spot on. Anyone else using effects (besides compressor) before their FI?
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
I can't remember if I have any before, but I do run the FI in one of the effects loops of my HX Effects, so I'm able to insert stuff before and after if I so choose. I believe for "Can't Stop the Feeling" by Justin Timberlake, I have a patch on the FI, with a distortion either just before or after, and a ring modulator run in parallel. The distortion really brings out the sound of the FI, IMO.
I think I saw your FI patch for that track in the FI Drive share, didn't I? I'll have to check it out, my band plays that one as well. I'm pretty sure the bass in Timberlake's original recording was using a BassBalls style effect, though.
@AngelCrusher Out of curiosity, is your Moog monophonic or polyphonic?
The more I dig into synth and the FI, the more I feel like polyphony is a pretty big key. Synths (FI or keys) that can only track one note at a time need the clinically clean note definition, vs. polyphonic synths seem to track much better and can even do chords. A lot of 80s music would probably sound quite different if they were using monophonic synths. Example: The Roland Juno 6 seems like a popular synth of choice in the 80s that had 6-note polyphony, which probably made a big difference.
Even if the FI had polyphonic voicing, it probably still wouldn't track as well as a dedicated keys synth (but as previously mentioned, nothing really will). But I'd be quite interested to see how much (if any) difference adding even just 4-voice poly would have for the FI. I've been eyeing the Digitech Dirty Robot lately just for kicks... That one IS polyphonic, and seems to track about as fast as one can play.
It'll be interesting to hear further details about Source Audio's new synth as well. If that one is polyphonic, I'll be checking it out to see how it compares to my trusty FI.
5sg.
NicJimBass
Flossin'? I thought your name was Munson!
I don't think I've posted anything. IIRC, I use one of the stock patches (can't recall the number right off... maybe 16?) adjusted to taste, with the addition of the effects I've mentioned. Through headphones, it sounds REALLY close to my ear. I'll verify which patch it is this weekend.
- May 16, 2007
- 3,395
- 4,869
- Disclosures
- Volunteer developer/beta tester with Source Audio, Morningstar Engineering & MORTRIX
@AngelCrusher Even if the FI had polyphonic voicing, it probably still wouldn't track as well as a dedicated keys synth (but as previously mentioned, nothing really will). But I'd be quite interested to see how much (if any) difference adding even just 4-voice poly would have for the FI. [/QUOTE]
From what I recall (never tried it) triggering the FI with a MIDI keyboard works polyphonically. It's just the audio tracking engine that's mono.
From what I recall (never tried it) triggering the FI with a MIDI keyboard works polyphonically. It's just the audio tracking engine that's mono.
