Double Bass Future of amplifiers designed for both piezo and microphone

[uprightbass.com]

I've moved to using PA's (active main on top of an active sub) and have zero regrets. If your premise for great DB amplification is MBOL, then PA's with FRFR just make sense. We spend so much money getting everything to be accurate and microphone-like, so why not plug into something that is made to accurately reproduce that? PA's have evolved so significantly that they do such a great job and at such a reasonable price and weighing so little. That market is huge and competition is fierce which drove so much innovation. I used AI amps for decades and they were such great products in their day, but once I tried PA's in recent years, I realized just how great those things are these days and that they do such a good job amplifying DB.

 

[Ric Vice]

In my limited experience

I've moved to using PA's (active main on top of an active sub) and have zero regrets. If your premise for great DB amplification is MBOL, then PA's with FRFR just make sense. We spend so much money getting everything to be accurate and microphone-like, so why not plug into something that is made to accurately reproduce that? PA's have evolved so significantly that they do such a great job and at such a reasonable price and weighing so little. That market is huge and competition is fierce which drove so much innovation. I used AI amps for decades and they were such great products in their day, but once I tried PA's in recent years, I realized just how great those things are these days and that they do such a good job amplifying DB.

i
In my limited experience with portable powered PA Speakers (I owned a QSC K8 v1 and used a K10 v1) I would have to say that with a Grace Felix or Headway EDB-2) theywere lacking in midrange reproduction and detail. Since I went with powered bass speakers (no longer in production)
from MAS sound works the difference is night and day. Mikes speakers really sound like a bass (I realize that they were more expensive) As I have not had the opportunity to try the K8 v2's I cannot comment on the newer ones. Just my take of course. Mileage may vary.

 

[BassinCT]

In my limited experience with portable powered PA Speakers (I owned a QSC K8 v1 and used a K10 v1) I would have to say that with a Grace Felix or Headway EDB-2) theywere lacking in midrange reproduction and detail. …As I have not had the opportunity to try the K8 v2's I cannot comment on the newer ones. Just my take of course. Mileage may vary.

I had a similar experience with the original K10 + electric bass. It could get a little “pillowy”. The Yamaha DXR range is worth a listen- it’s low end seems tighter.

 

[g-dude]

My personal take is that for those of us who frequently double (I do occasionally, but not often) dual channel preamps like the Grace Felix and the Headway EDB-2 H.E.are the solution to those of us who double. As time moves ahead, there is really no incentive for amp manufactures to build two channel units, dedicated to
Double Bas,s when the largest market share is electric guitars followed by electric basses. We are and will continue to be a small portion of the overall sales for bass amps. I would also predict ( I don’t have a crystal ball) that used Acoustic Image, Euphonic Audio, Walter Woods, and other similar dual channel amplifiers will become become more valuable provided they can be repaired. They may actually increase in value to some degree. Dual channel amplifiers are something that carried over from the 1960’s and 70’s before FOH P.A.’s and monitors were non existent. At that time two channel Ampeg B-15N’s along with the Fender Bassmen and Dual Showman amplifiers often served double duty as P.A.’s running the vocals through the auxiliary channel. Acoustic Image, Euphonic Audio and Walter Woods and others copied that design, so it was continued into the early 2,000’s but once Gallien Krueger, SWR and Eden became popular dual channel amps for bass became rarer. The majority of Bass amps did not include a second channel. All the new boutique bass amps from Quilter, Trickfish, Genz Benz, and Mesa are for the most part single channel amps. I don’t anticipate that changing anytime in the near future. Just my take

P.S.

I’d love to be proven wrong, and if someone comes up with a great, lightweight, full feature DB/EB amplifier in the U.S. I’ll be first in line to try it out.

So some of the Mesa bass amps, like the TT-800 are dual channel.

More interestingly, the Mesa Rosette is dual input with an XLR input and multiple DI out options.

While the Rosette is an acoustic amp, and not bass specific, it has been working well for me.

 

[brianrost]

The Mesa TT-800 is not a true two channel amp, it is a channel switching amp. There is only one input, so for doublers, you would at least need an A/B box to avoid unplugging to switch basses. It doesn't support pickup plus mike inputs at all. Each channel has a different tone stack (one is Fender style, the other is Baxandall) and it's own voicing.

Too bad there is no Rosette head, only two combo configurations.

 

[Wasnex]

I don't know how loud they play, but the Rosette 300 manual discusses using this amp with upright.

Another contender is the Genzler Bass Acoustic Array offered solely from Gollihur.

 

[BassinCT]

Both the Genzler and Rosette could work for me, as I only use a mic and don’t play ridiculously loud gigs. While I am used to an adjustable HPF, the Genzler has a built-in 40Hz filter, and my microphone isn’t dishing out much below 40Hz anyway… hmmm

 

[Diplock]

How much do the economics of building an amp like this make sense these days? With all the separate preamps available now and the versatility of going that route I wonder. Granted my pedalboard with a line selector/HPF-piezo buffer/graphic eq pedal/mic pre (and when needed an A/B box for doubling) is cumbersome but I can use it with any amp. More to the point it works and is paid for.

 

[Ric Vice]

How much do the economics of building an amp like this make sense these days? With all the separate preamps available now and the versatility of going that route I wonder. Granted my pedalboard with a line selector/HPF-piezo buffer/graphic eq pedal/mic pre (and when needed an A/B box for doubling) is cumbersome but I can use it with any amp. More to the point it works and is paid for.

What I perceive is that many of bass amplifier manufactures like Gallien Krueger, Ampeg, and Fender, wouldn't see any advantage in adding those features to what are essentially bass guitar amplifiers. Many companies do build "acoustic guitar" amplifiers that
have HPF's and the like. The Genzler Acoustic Array Pro, the MESA Rosette, and the Markbass AC 101 H are dual channel amps, with 48 volt phantom, there's also the Genzler Acoustic Array Pro and the new GR Bass AT Cube Acoustic, which are actual
bass amplifiers. Like you I'm set with gear. Either the Grace Felix or the Headway EDB-2 H.E. will fill the bill nicely just by themselves. Granted it's a more expensive solution than yours
D.

 

[g-dude]

The Mesa TT-800 is not a true two channel amp, it is a channel switching amp. There is only one input, so for doublers, you would at least need an A/B box to avoid unplugging to switch basses. It doesn't support pickup plus mike inputs at all. Each channel has a different tone stack (one is Fender style, the other is Baxandall) and it's own voicing.

Too bad there is no Rosette head, only two combo configurations.

I have to say that I’m fine with the Rosette being a combo, but I wish they would have a matching cabinet for the 1x10.

That being said, maybe an upward firing extension might work nicely.

 

[g-dude]

I don't know how loud they play, but the Rosette 300 manual discusses using this amp with upright.

Another contender is the Genzler Bass Acoustic Array offered solely from Gollihur.

The Rosette will hit feedback inducing volumes. I’ve used it on a stage right next to horn players, and I’ll be using it tonight at the bandshell.

Both the Genzler and Rosette could work for me, as I only use a mic and don’t play ridiculously loud gigs. While I am used to an adjustable HPF, the Genzler has a built-in 40Hz filter, and my microphone isn’t dishing out much below 40Hz anyway… hmmm

I love the sound of the rosette with a clip on mic. My E string ends up sounding epic when I play arco.

 

[Scott Lynch]

IMHO, stand-alone preamps with acoustic-friendly features are the way forward.

I love that bass amp makers like Genzler and Mesa are designing aux ins into their heads with 1/4” inputs. Plug an Alix, Headway, or other pre of your choice into one - instant doubling rig.

 

[Ric Vice]

IMHO, stand-alone preamps with acoustic-friendly features are the way forward.

I love that bass amp makers like Genzler and Mesa are designing aux ins into their heads with 1/4” inputs. Plug an Alix, Headway, or other pre of your choice into one - instant doubling rig.

I had no idea the Mesa Subway series had aux inputs on the rear panel. That’s brilliant!

 

[g-dude]

I had no idea the Mesa Subway series had aux inputs on the rear panel. That’s brilliant!

I think it means you need to buy an analogue synth to leverage that fact.

 

[Wasnex]

The Rosette will hit feedback inducing volumes. I’ve used it on a stage right next to horn players, and I’ll be using it tonight at the bandshell.

That's good to hear. 150W can be a lot of power for a 110. I am glad it holds up.

One thing I like about the Genzler Bass Acoustic Array is they offer a matching extension cab if you need more juice.

 

[Gruff]

The singer using one amp with built in effects for voice + acoustic guitar/acoustic instrument/digital piano seems to be a good niche.

I solved this same situation recently with a Boss VE-8 unit - acoustic instrument and vocal mixing with basic effects into a single XLR to an amp.

 

[g-dude]

That's good to hear. 150W can be a lot of power for a 110. I am glad it holds up.

One thing I like about the Genzler Bass Acoustic Array is they offer a matching extension cab if you need more juice.

The funny thing is, you can buy the Rosette 10” speaker from Mesa - just not inside a cabinet.