FX loop with a preamp pedal?

[NYgiant]

Been googling, watching YouTube vids and came across old threads here, but want to start my own thread to see if I can understand.

Right now, I have a GK MB500 amp. My pedalboard consists of;

Bass >tuner >Low pass filter >darkglass hyper luminal compressor> input on front of amp.

Haven’t ever been overly impressed with the sound I get out of the EQ on the GK amp. Pretty close to buying an Aguilar tone hammer preamp pedal and see how that sounds.

Here is what I THINK I understand but not 100% sure…..

- In order to bypass the amps built in EQ, I would need to plug all the pedals I mentioned above, that are all connected together, including the Aguilar pre amp pedal into the FX return port on the back of the amp.

- I would then run a guitar cable from the FX send port to the input of the first pedal in the chain (the tuner). Even though this tuner can be turned on and off by stepping on it, it has a pass through mode which I assume needs to be set to on. This, so the signal coming from the cord coming out of the FX send works.

- Finally, I would plug the cord from my bass directly into the input jack on the front of the amp.

Does this sound correct? My other question is. And I guess I can try this myself to get my own answer, but are just the EQ knobs on the GK all overridden by doing this? Or does the gain knob get overridden as well and you use the gain and volume on the preamp pedal and just the master volume knob on the GK amp?

Sorry for being so long, but I’m new to this and a little confused. Thanks

 

[agedhorse]

No, your TH preamp and other pedals would replace the preamp on the GK amp, therefore you would plug the output of the TH preamp pedal into the effects return of the amp. Your bass would plug into the pedals in front of the TH preramp.

 

[Michedelic]

Been googling, watching YouTube vids and came across old threads here, but want to start my own thread to see if I can understand.

Right now, I have a GK MB500 amp. My pedalboard consists of;

Bass >tuner >Low pass filter >darkglass hyper luminal compressor> input on front of amp.

Haven’t ever been overly impressed with the sound I get out of the EQ on the GK amp. Pretty close to buying an Aguilar tone hammer preamp pedal and see how that sounds.

Here is what I THINK I understand but not 100% sure…..

- In order to bypass the amps built in EQ, I would need to plug all the pedals I mentioned above, that are all connected together, including the Aguilar pre amp pedal into the FX return port on the back of the amp.

- I would then run a guitar cable from the FX send port to the input of the first pedal in the chain (the tuner). Even though this tuner can be turned on and off by stepping on it, it has a pass through mode which I assume needs to be set to on. This, so the signal coming from the cord coming out of the FX send works.

- Finally, I would plug the cord from my bass directly into the input jack on the front of the amp.

Does this sound correct? My other question is. And I guess I can try this myself to get my own answer, but are just the EQ knobs on the GK all overridden by doing this? Or does the gain knob get overridden as well and you use the gain and volume on the preamp pedal and just the master volume knob on the GK amp?

Sorry for being so long, but I’m new to this and a little confused. Thanks

Why not seek out and obtain an amp with a basic sound that suffices in the first place? Then any pedals will be sweetening.

 

[NYgiant]

No, your TH preamp and other pedals would replace the preamp on the GK amp, therefore you would plug the output of the TH preamp pedal into the effects return of the amp. Your bass would plug into the pedals in front of the TH preramp.

Ok thanks. Don’t know why I thought the FX send or the amp input jack was involved.

So, out of curiosity, can you plug everything into the amps input jack and still use the tone controls of the amp with the preamp controls? Or does that defeat the purpose of the preamp?

 

[NYgiant]

Why not seek out and obtain an amp with a basic sound that suffices in the first place? Then any pedals will be sweetening.

Money. Would want to go with a Mesa D800+ but just recently spent a lot on amp, cabs, bass, over the past few months.

 

[agedhorse]

Ok thanks. Don’t know why I thought the FX send or the amp input jack was involved.

So, out of curiosity, can you plug everything into the amps input jack and still use the tone controls of the amp with the preamp controls? Or does that defeat the purpose of the preamp?

That pretty much defeats the purpose, plus stacking 3 different preamp voicings generally doesn’t work all that well, but you cat try it.

 

[BlackCrow]

I have a GK MB212v2 combo. I have slaved my Mesa d800+ to the combo using the "effects send out" of the Mesa into the "aux in" of the combo bypassing the GK preamp and using only the 500watt power amp section of the combo through the Mesa preamp. It sounds exactly like a Mesa head with a GK cab. What I'm saying is that technical issues aside, an Aguilar pre-amp into your GK amp through the effects loop bypassing the GK preamp, using only the power amp section will probably sound like the Aguilar into whatever cab you are using. Depending if the GKmb500 effects loop is post or pre EQ.

 

[NYgiant]

I have a GK MB212v2 combo. I have slaved my Mesa d800+ to the combo using the "effects send out" of the Mesa into the "aux in" of the combo bypassing the GK preamp and using only the 500watt power amp section of the combo through the Mesa preamp. It sounds exactly like a Mesa head with a GK cab. What I'm saying is that technical issues aside, an Aguilar pre-amp into your GK amp through the effects loop bypassing the GK preamp, using only the power amp section will probably sound like the Aguilar into whatever cab you are using. Depending if the GKmb500 effects loop is post or pre EQ.

Nice, thanks for sharing that. Pretty certain my GK loop is pre EQ. I mean, it’s worth a shot right? Have read many reviews on the tone hammer pedal and it’s overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Derek Kay]

You don't say what bass you are using.

If it is passive you may be better off plugging into the amp first, and adding pedals afterwards through the effects loop.

Why?
In principle, I would rather find higher gains and better EQ through a dedicated preamp, rather than through some inferior 9v device that's limited by it's voltage.

The line levels and pedals are usually matched unlike a passive bass.

If the bass is active, you're already at 9v quality and the order is whatever you find works. I have no advice there.

 

[BlackCrow]

This was just my experience, and I talked to Mesa directly and they assured me in my case what I was trying to do would work. Not sure about the Aguilar. But, this is TB...within mere moments someone with real knowledge will let you know if what you are trying to do will work or not.

 

[NYgiant]

You don't say what bass you are using.

If it is passive you may be better off plugging into the amp first, and adding pedals afterwards through the effects loop.

Why?
In principle, I would rather find higher gains and better EQ through a dedicated preamp, rather than through some inferior 9v device that's limited by it's voltage.

The line levels and pedals are usually matched unlike a passive bass.

If the bass is active, you're already at 9v quality and the order is whatever you find works. I have no advice there.

2 basses I switch between. Fender jazz passive and Ibanez sound gear with EMG’s and active EQ.

The tone hammer pedal will be operating on 18v not 9. Also, a little confused now. So you’re saying to plug the bass guitar directly into the amp but have the tone hammer pedal in the FX loop?

I could be misunderstanding, but I thought what Agedhorse said earlier in the thread was not to plug into the amp with the bass because you’d be mixing 2 different EQ’s. The amps EQ and the pedal’s EQ.

 

[BlackCrow]

Think about this...Bass first in signal chain..then your pedal board...then Aguilar preamp (which will be replacing the GK eq)...using the Aguilar preamp 1/4'' output into the 1/4" effects return (input) of the GK head. (hopefully bypassing the GK eq section depending on design of GK head) this should be using only the GK head power section, with your cab connected to GK head as normal. This is the only way i can see it working. What bass you are using does not matter. or voltage. or pickups. or strings. or if its a full moon. sorry if i sound snarky, it was a long day.

 

[NYgiant]

Think about this...Bass first in signal chain..then your pedal board...then Aguilar preamp (which will be replacing the GK eq)...using the Aguilar preamp 1/4'' output into the 1/4" effects return (input) of the GK head. (hopefully bypassing the GK eq section depending on design of GK head) this should be using only the GK head power section, with your cab connected to GK head as normal. This is the only way i can see it working. What bass you are using does not matter. or voltage. or pickups. or strings. or if its a full moon. sorry if i sound snarky, it was a long day.

Ha ha….all good. And yes, what you just broke down makes complete sense. It’s along the lines of what I was thinking.

 

[agedhorse]

You don't say what bass you are using.

If it is passive you may be better off plugging into the amp first, and adding pedals afterwards through the effects loop.

Why?
In principle, I would rather find higher gains and better EQ through a dedicated preamp, rather than through some inferior 9v device that's limited by it's voltage.

The line levels and pedals are usually matched unlike a passive bass.

If the bass is active, you're already at 9v quality and the order is whatever you find works. I have no advice there.

You have it backwards. Most pedals operate at instrument level and most effects loops are line level. Plugging the bass into the pedals first is generally better for level matching, then into the preamp, then into the effects return (if a line level output) or the amp’s input (if instrument level).

9V is not necessary inferior either, nor does it have to be a limitation.

 

[agedhorse]

2 basses I switch between. Fender jazz passive and Ibanez sound gear with EMG’s and active EQ.

The tone hammer pedal will be operating on 18v not 9. Also, a little confused now. So you’re saying to plug the bass guitar directly into the amp but have the tone hammer pedal in the FX loop?

I could be misunderstanding, but I thought what Agedhorse said earlier in the thread was not to plug into the amp with the bass because you’d be mixing 2 different EQ’s. The amps EQ and the pedal’s EQ.

Yes, my advice is accurate and correct.

 

[NYgiant]

Yes, my advice is accurate and correct.

Thank you…..figured as much. When I read what was posted above from “Derek Kay”, it totally contradicted what you explained to me. I’m good now Agedhorse. Thanks again for clearing it up for me.

 

[BlackCrow]

So, off topic, how do you like the darkglass compressor?...I looked at it for awhile, but went with a "Keeley Bassist" compressor instead. I do use a darkglass "Vintage Microtubes" pedal that i really like.

 

[NYgiant]

So, off topic, how do you like the darkglass compressor?...I looked at it for awhile, but went with a "Keeley Bassist" compressor instead. I do use a darkglass "Vintage Microtubes" pedal that i really like.

So far so good. I researched compressors until my eyes were burning before I picked the darkglass. I have nothing to compare it to as it’s the first one I’ve owned. Lots of options on it and I like how the blend dial mixes the clean and effected signals.

 

[Derek Kay]

I stand corrected by Agedhorse.
I failed to notice you referred to 'preamp' pedals.

My FX pedals are not overloaded by line levels through my FX loops but they are not preamps. I'm using Boss pedals MIJ ie 1990s, and there's no apparent overload. My sound is better going passive bass direct to amphead, and then FXs.

My active bass doesn't care.

I generalise about the inferiority of 9v devices, but I notice the trend towards 18v. I'm spoilt by the WW 100-8 preamps which haven't been bettered by any pedal, and few preamps I'm aware of. I run them into higher wattage power amps without any problem.

It does seem pointless to run preamp into preamp.
I would choose between a preamp pedal or the GK preamp.
How would an active bass with preamp inboard compare to a passive bass without one? That may be your main dilemma.

 

[robertusf]

Agedhorse knows for sure !

I currently run this setup

Bass>Shure Wireless>HX Stomp>Radial JDI>XLR to FOH - 1/4” thru to FX return on my Ampeg PF500 paired with a Genz Benz Neox 212 . If I am using IEM I may use the amp and 112 cabinet or skip the amp/cab altogether depending on the venue. the setup sounds great and the FOH techs love the sound and levels coming from the JDI

So if you like/love your preamp sound , the preamp into FX return definitely works well