G&L out of business?

[Root 5]

All the people saying ‘G&L don’t have any well known endorsers!’

1) G&L don’t have the money to PAY those players to use their gear. They’re superior to any Fender in every way (except resale value) but guess which brand the well known players play?

Endorsements are largely BS.

2) If you need ‘Jaco’ or ‘Geddy’ or ‘Clapton’ to tell you an instrument is worth your time and money, then you don’t know how to assess an instrument.

 

[Cleezmo]

Not much to add to this thread, other than to say that my three USA G&Ls - '14 M-2000, '11 L-2500 fretless, and '20 JB - are all great basses and a joy to play. The M-2000 is still probably my 'if I could only keep one....' bass, it's just a beast in a good way.

My guitar player is a card-carrying Fender guy (sooo many Teles), but he has two G&L ASATS that he raves about.

But agree with all the sentiments around how the lack of awareness due to marketing, endorsements, etc. I still will get asked 'What is a G&L?' at gigs or things, it's sort of surprising/depressing the lack of brand recognition.

 

[ahbass2500]

How do we know that's anything but rumour? If this were true you'd be right but I don't see any concrete evidence of this claim. If you've got any I'd be really interested to see it. This conspiracism has already been discussed in the thread, including the fact that inconsistent restrictive distribution contracts could easily invite antitrust scrutiny.

There was a lawsuit around the rights to Leo Fender's signature after his death. Fender wanted G&L to stop using it. Was published in the LA times, so I would call that more than a rumor.

Leo Fender's Legacy: G&L; Sales on Rise

More than two years after the death of Leo Fender, his glasses are still where he left them on his desk at G&L; Guitars.

www.latimes.com

 

[FretRiff]

Not for nothing but the products page on bbesound.com (the folks who own G&L) is down/gone..

The main page has a graphic for and direct link to glguitars.com

 

[CrimsonGhost]

All the people saying ‘G&L don’t have any well known endorsers!’

1) G&L don’t have the money to PAY those players to use their gear. They’re superior to any Fender in every way (except resale value) but guess which brand the well known players play?

Endorsements are largely BS.

2) If you need ‘Jaco’ or ‘Geddy’ or ‘Clapton’ to tell you an instrument is worth your time and money, then you don’t know how to assess an instrument.

I don't even think it was that. A lot of fender players weren't endorsees and a lot of fender players in bands as many bass players grew up inspired new players to want a fender as they saw their heros playing them. It may be changing now but many if not most younger folks starting out on bass go to a shop and want that fender hanging up on the wall.

The main page has a graphic for and direct link to glguitars.com

Yes I know, but their own bbe products page is down. Idk..

 

[FretRiff]

There was a lawsuit around the rights to Leo Fender's signature after his death. Fender wanted G&L to stop using it. Was published in the LA times, so I would call that more than a rumor.

Leo Fender's Legacy: G&L; Sales on Rise

More than two years after the death of Leo Fender, his glasses are still where he left them on his desk at G&L; Guitars.

www.latimes.com

That was a result of a 1960s contract dispute, based on Fender's agreement when he sold the company not to put the Fender name on guitars or use it in advertising. That's why they always danced around it with 'George and Leo' etc. After Leo Fender's death, Fender Musical Instruments sued G&L Guitars to stop the company from using Leo Fender's name and signature on their guitars. The central issue was that FMIC claimed the rights to the "Fender" name, arguing that G&L's use of Leo Fender’s full signature could mislead consumers or infringe upon FMIC’s trademark after Leo’s passing.

In response to the lawsuit and under legal and business pressure, G&L changed their branding—removing "by Leo Fender" from the headstock and relocating or dropping Leo Fender’s signature from their instruments.

So let's not conflate that with the claim that Fender was somehow going specifically after G&L in recent years.

 

[scubaduba]

So do you reckon now is a good or bad time to buy a new G&L?

 

[ardgedee]

Sure, but it's not a focused effort Fender made against G&L (as opposed to its competitors in general), and anything a large competitor like Fender does has outsize effects on all smaller manufacturers to some extent. I was specifically referring to the claim that Fender targeted G&L specifically over other companies, of which I don't think we have evidence.

Are they known to have made this demand against other companies?

 

[MrB64]

Not for nothing but the products page on bbesound.com (the folks who own G&L) is down/gone..

I got this on the G&L Online Store: BBE Sound

Granted, it's not much. I did see that the products page on the BBE site is showing error stuff.

 

[ardgedee]

Endorsements are largely BS.

Celebrity endorsements drive sales regardless of your feelings.

To the best of my knowledge it's extremely rare for any company making instruments or related gear to compensate endorsing musicians with anything other than merch (usually a free instrument, or maybe a custom or signature version) and some collateral PR. Nobody's making bank on it.

 

[ahbass2500]

That was a result of a 1960s contract dispute, based on Fender's agreement when he sold the company not to put the Fender name on guitars or use it in advertising. That's why they always danced around it with 'George and Leo' etc. After Leo Fender's death, Fender Musical Instruments sued G&L Guitars to stop the company from using Leo Fender's name and signature on their guitars. The central issue was that FMIC claimed the rights to the "Fender" name, arguing that G&L's use of Leo Fender’s full signature could mislead consumers or infringe upon FMIC’s trademark after Leo’s passing.

In response to the lawsuit and under legal and business pressure, G&L changed their branding—removing "by Leo Fender" from the headstock and relocating or dropping Leo Fender’s signature from their instruments.

So let's not conflate that with the claim that Fender was somehow going specifically after G&L in recent years.

I never said it was recent years. One of the posts you quoted mentioned there was history. You dismissed the history. They certainly have some history even if it is not much.

Edit: nevermind. We agree. I misread one of the posts you quoted. They oversold it there. You were right to call it out.

 

[ahbass2500]

So do you reckon now is a good or bad time to buy a new G&L?

Depends on how much you value your warranty coverage.

 

[FretRiff]

I never said it was recent years. One of the posts you quoted mentioned there was history. You dismissed the history. They certainly have some history.

You quoted me responding to my questioning about the apparently unfounded speculation that "If small or medium sized retailers wanted to sell Fenders, they were not able to sell G&L. GC, Sweetwater, MF could get away with it because of their size." My response to that was, "How do we know that's anything but rumour? If this were true you'd be right but I don't see any concrete evidence of this claim. If you've got any I'd be really interested to see it. This conspiracism has already been discussed in the thread, including the fact that inconsistent restrictive distribution contracts could easily invite antitrust scrutiny."

If you have some other post I made to reply to, please quote it and we can discuss it.

 

[ahbass2500]

You quoted me responding to my questioning about the apparently unfounded speculation that "If small or medium sized retailers wanted to sell Fenders, they were not able to sell G&L. GC, Sweetwater, MF could get away with it because of their size." My response to that was, "How do we know that's anything but rumour? If this were true you'd be right but I don't see any concrete evidence of this claim. If you've got any I'd be really interested to see it. This conspiracism has already been discussed in the thread, including the fact that inconsistent restrictive distribution contracts could easily invite antitrust scrutiny."

If you have some other post I made to reply to, please quote it and we can discuss it.

Reread my post. I already corrected before you posted this. Thread is moving fast and I misread the discussion line you were on.

 

[FretRiff]

Reread my post. I already corrected before you posted this. Thread is moving fast and I misread the discussion line you were on.

I'm not going to reread threads when people misquote then change their posts then want a do-over.

 

[ardgedee]

I got this on the G&L Online Store: BBE Sound

Granted, it's not much. I did see that the products page on the BBE site is showing error stuff.

Judging from copyright date, site layout and some other details it doesn't look like the BBE site has been updated in nine or ten years. (edit: for that matter much of the site is hobbled by server errors in the same way it was when I last looked a few months ago. I wouldn't take the absence of a working product page to mean anything other than BBE has effectively abandoned its website. And be careful because I just discovered some links point to third-party scam sites.)

Do we know whether it's only G&L in trouble or is the whole parent company?

 

[ahbass2500]

I'm not going to reread threads when people misquote then change their posts then want a do-over.

Good luck with all that. Adding one to my ignore list.

 

[FretRiff]

Good luck with all that.

Thanks. I only responded to what you wrote, not what you meant to write.

 

[CletusMarley]

Such a shame. Hopefully they can get back on their feet at some point.

 

[Root 5]

Celebrity endorsements drive sales regardless of your feelings.

To the best of my knowledge it's extremely rare for any company making instruments or related gear to compensate endorsing musicians with anything other than merch (usually a free instrument, or maybe a custom or signature version) and some collateral PR. Nobody's making bank on it.

I’m not even sure G&L can compete with just that.