G&L versus Fender questions

[Brad Johnson]

It cost money to retool and expand for increased production. They very well be at their production peak. I don't think it's odd for them to not take a financial risk because someone tells them they don't like tight spacing.

It costs money to lose sales. This isn't a new developement, if they spread the cost over the 15 or so years they've been refusing to do it while companies like Lakland start up and eclipse them...


You think it makes business sense to ignore what many have been saying (and more importantly buying) for years. I'm no longer baffled by your position, it just doesn't make sense to me. OTOH I am still baffled at how a business would intentionally turn a blind eye to so many potential customers. Especially for this long. If they had struck while the iron was hot (aka long before many of it's competitors even existed) who knows where they might be today. Granted, every company doesn't want the type of market share Fender has.

You say that because you don't like it that the majority of bass players don't like it. They are saying that their sales figures are good and they don't see the need to expand.

Did I?

Frankly I'm amazed that I'd say something that dumb. Where exactly did I say that?

If you can't find it I understand. That's apparently what you want to think I said vs. what I clearly stated.

How is my example different. I don't like skinny necks on basses. Obviously the success of the Precision shows that other people like a wider neck as well so why not make a jazz with a wider neck since that is what tons of bass players like? Isn't that what you are saying with the tight spacing?

No, it's not. I'm sure based on what you're saying that you aren't aware that plucking hand spacing can be far more limiting and critical than fretting hand. Particularly if one uses a technique that requires them to get between the strings. Why would your need to get between the strings with your fretting hand?

Just curious, have you even looked at what Fender offers or are you just assuming they don't make what you mentioned? Unlike G&L, they have lots of flavors of basses.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I am a G&L convert. I own both a L2500 and L2000 (tributes) and they are killer. I see the G&Ls as the evolution of Fenders work. They dont seem to be hugely popular because they dont advertise very much and from what I know, and they dont sponsor big name players in the bass world. Thats cool with me, I got my L2500 used in mint condition for a great price.

I was at a gig a few weeks ago with my L2500 and some local semi-famous bass player was asking what my bass was, he said he never saw a G&L in person. He's been playing for something like 40 years. He did tell me how awesome it sounded after the first set though!

As mentioned by Johnny Alien, maybe they simply don't want to be more popular. No, I don't believe that for a minute.

 

[Johnny Alien]

Don't know if they've ever figured out that many bassists hate tight spacing.

I apologize. You said "many" not majority. I assumed it was a greater quantity because you insinuated they were losing alot of sales by not doing it.

What I was saying is that ANY new business expansion requires money and there are risks involved. They may have even put research in you don't know. If they are happy selling a product that many people like and feel they are successful at it then why take a risk?

Why is everyone here being so douchy lately? All I said is that I can see their point from a business perspective. If you don't agree then so be it.

 

[Johnny Alien]

As mentioned by Johnny Alien, maybe they simply don't want to be more popular. No, I don't believe that for a minute.

Or maybe they do a good job selling a bass that you don't really like?

 

[Johnny Alien]

No, it's not. I'm sure based on what you're saying that you aren't aware that plucking hand spacing can be far more limiting and critical than fretting hand. Particularly if one uses a technique that requires them to get between the strings. Why would your need to get between the strings with your fretting hand?

Just curious, have you even looked at what Fender offers or are you just assuming they don't make what you mentioned? Unlike G&L, they have lots of flavors of basses.

But you are assuming that because it doesn't work for you then it is an inferior model. many people buy them and like them.

And yes I have looked. There is no jazz bass with a wider neck that I am aware of. The Hoppus is close but has a Precision pickup so that doesn't really count.

 

[johnnyz]

The curse of the G&L is always having to explain the G&L name and history.

 

[jaywa]

The curse of the G&L is always having to explain the G&L name and history.

I thought the curse was having to answer the question, "what's with the weird headstock"?

 

[lug]

But you are assuming that because it doesn't work for you then it is an inferior model. many people buy them and like them.

And yes I have looked. There is no jazz bass with a wider neck that I am aware of. The Hoppus is close but has a Precision pickup so that doesn't really count.

The Roscoe Beck had 19mm spacing and I believe one of the 5 string squiers does or did (can't remember the model off had).

 

[Brad Johnson]

I apologize. You said "many" not majority. I assumed it was a greater quantity because you insinuated they were losing alot of sales by not doing it.

A greater quantity than what?

If 1,000 more people per year would buy their basses, that wouldn't be worth making them available for sale?

What I was saying is that ANY new business expansion requires money and there are risks involved. They may have even put research in you don't know. If they are happy selling a product that many people like and feel they are successful at it then why take a risk?

Why is everyone here being so douchy lately? All I said is that I can see their point from a business perspective. If you don't agree then so be it.

And I'm being "douchy" how? By calling someone a name (like "douchy") or simply disagreeing with you? What you are saying makes no sense to me. It really makes no sense from a business POV... which is how you keep couching your opinion.

 

[Brad Johnson]

But you are assuming that because it doesn't work for you then it is an inferior model. many people buy them and like them.

At the risk of being douchy for answering another of your off the wall and by that I mean "not even close to what I wrote" statements, show me where i said it was an inferior model? If you simply can't read what I'm writing with a cool, clear head, fine. The now repeated assuming got old the first time.

Their fives are not inferior models to the the people who like them. By the same token they are not DESIRABLE models for people who don't care for the restrictive spacing.

Do you follow that?

And yes I have looked. There is no jazz bass with a wider neck that I am aware of. The Hoppus is close but has a Precision pickup so that doesn't really count.

Those are the only Fenders you've seen?

 

[Flabass]

I've been to the G&L factory on Fender Ave and even had a tour. I met Dave McLaren, VP BBE Sound (they own G&L), while there. Not very big. BBE Sound seems more concerned with their electronics business. After all, they canceled their sponsership of the G&L forum. I contacted BBE and they said it was a matter of economics.

As far as re-tooling, bringing out new models, necks, they did come out with the JB.

I currently own 2 L-2000's (different necks) and a Legacy (precision) bass.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The Roscoe Beck had 19mm spacing and I believe one of the 5 string squiers does or did (can't remember the model off had).

Yep, the RB5 had a wide neck. I still haven't seen an RB4 so I can't speak to that. All Fender necks on Jazzes aren't the skinny (at the nut) ones.

 

[Johnny Alien]

If 1,000 more people per year would buy their basses, that wouldn't be worth making them available for sale?

I don't know. 1000 in the grand scheme is not alot if they need to retool, perhaps buy an extra machine or two and possibly another employee or what not. I can't even guess at what it would cost them to introduce a new option into their line. You would need to ask them and my guess since they told you that it's not worth it that they probably don't feel they would make a whole lot more. It's all about cost of production versus sales.

And I'm being "douchy" how? By calling someone a name (like "douchy") or simply disagreeing with you? What you are saying makes no sense to me. It really makes no sense from a business POV... which is how you keep couching your opinion.

IMO, yes. It seems like you were jumping on me from the start for saying I can see their point. If what I am saying makes no sense then you need to continually tell me how wrong I am until I agree with you? You said you were baffled that they didn't see the huge market they are missing. I merely pointed out that it didn't baffle me because if they are doing fine why go through the expense and potential risk?

 

[Johnny Alien]

At the risk of being douchy for answering another of your off the wall and by that I mean "not even close to what I wrote" statements, show me where i said it was an inferior model? If you simply can't read what I'm writing with a cool, clear head, fine. The now repeated assuming got old the first time.

I have a clear head you seem to be the one overly excited. You said it didn't work for your playing. I worded it poorly but I meant to imply that it did not meet what YOU needed in a 5 string.

Their fives are not inferior models to the the people who like them. By the same token they are not DESIRABLE models for people who don't care for the restrictive spacing.

Exactly! They don't need to and can't meet everyones needs. If you don't like them then find another model that works for you. G&L has already told you they are doing fine with the models they have available.

Those are the only Fenders you've seen?

It's funny you insult my reading and then come back with this. You asked me if I was sure that the fender line didn't offer what I want and I said as far as I could tell the only thing they offer close is the Hoppus and it's not really a jazz. Where did I say they were the only fenders I have seen?

You asked me this: "Just curious, have you even looked at what Fender offers or are you just assuming they don't make what you mentioned? Unlike G&L, they have lots of flavors of basses."

And I answered this: "And yes I have looked. There is no jazz bass with a wider neck that I am aware of. The Hoppus is close but has a Precision pickup so that doesn't really count."

That seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Johnny Alien]

The Roscoe Beck had 19mm spacing and I believe one of the 5 string squiers does or did (can't remember the model off had).

Thanks Lug! The RB is nice I played one but it isn't really a jazz. I am not looking for a 5 string just a good 4 string. I like the tone of jazzes but hate the thinner width necks.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Or maybe they do a good job selling a bass that you don't really like?

Yes, the market is saturated with G&L five strings.


And don't let the fact that I wrote this previously in this thread get in the way of another assumption:

"I've owned an L2000E "B00" bass for more than a decade... killer bass.

I like G&L's. I like their five strings except for the fact that I just can't comfortably play them. I still recommend them to people who don't mind narrow spacing. I still give them props for their way ahead of their time electronics package. So once again, there you go with another baseless assumption. If I really didn't like them, why would I recommend them?


I guess it is what it is.


At one point I would've liked them to be more successful and have more people play them. When it became clear that they didn't care about that, why bother?

 

[mike_v_s]

Thanks Lug! The RB is nice I played one but it isn't really a jazz. I am not looking for a 5 string just a good 4 string. I like the tone of jazzes but hate the thinner width necks.

G&L offers 2 different "p" necks for their basses. That aside, we could make a list of the companies that aren't filling every available niche on the market. Ready? Go!!

Mike

 

[Johnny Alien]

At one point I would've liked them to be more successful and have more people play them. When it became clear that they didn't care about that, why bother?

I guess that is my point. If they consider themselves successful and sell the amount they want then that's great. They are obviously at the point they want to be at. In many cases expansion can lead to lower quality too.

I apologize for the "douchy" comment. It seems like lately anytime I state an opinion here I get jumped on and people imply I am not intelligent. It is starting to really bum me out with this place. I don't think you were trying to do anything like that so I am sorry I implied (or stated out right) that you were. I'm just touchy I guess.

 

[Johnny Alien]

G&L offers 2 different "p" necks for their basses.

Mike

You know I never thought about that. At one point Lakland would swap necks on their Skylines but they are not as quick to do that anymore.

But it would be totally possible to get a G&L JB with a wider neck wouldn't it?

That may be exactly what I do. Thanks!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have a clear head you seem to be the one overly excited. You said it didn't work for your playing. I worded it poorly but I meant to imply that it did not meet what YOU needed in a 5 string.

A clear head would keep most people from assuming and wording things as poorly as you have. I said it didn't work for me, I didn't say I didn't like the basses. There's a difference.

Exactly! They don't need to and can't meet everyones needs. If you don't like them then find another model that works for you. G&L has already told you they are doing fine with the models they have available.

They told me that over ten years ago. Duh. As far as can't meet everyone's needs... that's not true in the slightest. They've chosen to IGNORE. That has nothing to do with what they >>CAN<< do.

It's funny you insult my reading and then come back with this. You asked me if I was sure that the fender line didn't offer what I want and I said as far as I could tell the only thing they offer close is the Hoppus and it's not really a jazz. Where did I say they were the only fenders I have seen?

"insult"? You've got to be kidding.

Your reading clearly has issues. You've acknowledged that already, now you want to get defensive about it? When you repeatedly counter points that I never made, pretending I actually said very negative things which I clearly did not... and then have the balls to be insulted?

Wow.

I didn't assume anything, you did. When I didn't know exactly what you were saying I asked questions. You OTOH just made stuff up.

You asked me this: "Just curious, have you even looked at what Fender offers or are you just assuming they don't make what you mentioned? Unlike G&L, they have lots of flavors of basses."

And I answered this: "And yes I have looked. There is no jazz bass with a wider neck that I am aware of. The Hoppus is close but has a Precision pickup so that doesn't really count."

That seems pretty clear to me.

So asking if those are the only Fenders you've seen is now an insult? And why did you thank lug for mentioning a Fender bass with wider neck that has both a single coil mode AND comes in a four and five string?



Cool.