• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Gain vs Master..I was a dummy

RyanKW

RyanKW

Guest
Jul 1, 2015
1,002
1,162
45
#1
So, recently on a thread here, I came across a consensus of sorts that the best tone comes from basically diming your gain and regulating volume with the master. The purpose of having both always did throw me a bit, so I tried it, and yeah, that's clearly the best sound I've gotten from my rig.

This may seem like a noob question for someone who's played as long as I have, but why would anyone dial this in any other way? Who do amps even have both?
 
#3
Gain is the preamp, main is the poweramp. On a lot of amps, maxing gain will overdrive and create distortion that is sometimes desirable but often not. They do different things. But controlling volume with the master is the way to go, the gain knob is more about tone shaping.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KevInDaBassment, karl_em_all, byoung93888 and 12 others
#5
I don't think I've ever dimed either one, no matter the amp, unless it was a power amp. Typically, Gain is usually in the 12 noon to 2 'clock neighborhood. Master, depending on the taper, is usually around noon or 1 o'clock. Having Gain, Volume, AND a Master is even more confusing !
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft, Tommyc and bassstation
#6
RyanKW said:
So, recently on a thread here, I came across a consensus of sorts that the best tone comes from basically diming your gain and regulating volume with the master.
Click to expand...

Not to confuse things even more but I think that you have that backwards unless you want a lot of distortion.

Often turning up the master and regulating the volume with the gain is what can make a tube amp sound better. Turning the gain all the way up will overdrive the pre into distortion.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft, KevInDaBassment, Grumry and 4 others
#8
jnewmark said:
I don't think I've ever dimed either one, no matter the amp, unless it was a power amp. Typically, Gain is usually in the 12 noon to 2 'clock neighborhood. Master, depending on the taper, is usually around noon or 1 o'clock. Having Gain, Volume, AND a Master is even more confusing !
Click to expand...

On many amps, the master is an attenuator located at the preamp out. People argue that having an attenuator in the signal chain at this point can affect the sound, making the amp sound a bit cloaked. Turning up the master effectively turns it into a non-master amp.

Of course, it depends on the amp.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MattZilla
#11
The svp pro may generate well audible 120Hz buzz if gain and master is used in old school manner.
While if gain is set to personal taste first and volume adjusted with master then there is no audible buzz nothing at all.

Generally it helps to get best signal to noise floor ratio if gain is set to personal taste first and then adjust loudness with the master.
Sometimes in practice it can be done the other way as long as noise floor isn't an audible issue but, the difference in use of gain and master could be always clearly measured.
In recording situation it's good practice to have best signal to noise floor ratio as possible for every instrument.
The reason why is quite simple to state. Every instrument generates some noise floor and several "inaudible" noise sources may sum up to an audible noise floor in total at some point.
Anoher consideration is that noise floor interferes sound quality (HiFi) of (studio) recordings although the noise floor is not "directly" audible.
If I was a producer I would hate it to see musicians generating needless (additional) noise floor while every hour renting a high-grade recording studio including costs for sound engineers would cost me vasts sums of money.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: quickfix
#13
Different strokes for different folks. I've never run the master wide open - I always run the input gain to right where it starts clipping and then back it off a bit. That gives me the best signal/noise ratio in the preamp. Others like to run the master wide open and use the preamp gain as their "master." Doesn't work for me personally, ymmv. Often guys who do that come from a pro sound background where you'd have racks of power amps always run wide open and volume was controlled through the board (channel volume and master fader and/or group).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Grumry, /\/\3phist0, petch and 4 others
#15
Really depends on what you're aiming for.. generally speaking, I start with the gain halfway through, and adjust the overall loudness with the master volume. Then I play with the gain to see if more or less sounds better. Then I readjust the master.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Plutonium244 and kwdhsk
#18
TBGFRED said:
BassmanPaul- Novice question here: If your amp is maxed, and you encounter a transient, like static discharge after walking across a carpet on stage, do you not risk really popping your whole system, amp and boxes?
Click to expand...
it's not my equipment but one shorty spike very likely does not hurt.
Especially as power density of a spike like this is "centered" more at low mids or middle mids rather than the lows below cab tuning.
Smallish "accidents" like this don't hurt anything. Too less power below tuning to hit Xlim and too less energy to frie any HT.
 
Last edited:
#19
TBGFRED said:
BassmanPaul- Novice question here: If your amp is maxed, and you encounter a transient, like static discharge after walking across a carpet on stage, do you not risk really popping your whole system, amp and boxes?
Click to expand...
No....if you had the amp hood open and charged a static discharge and touched some portions of the circuit board you could wreck some components particularly solid state components such as integrated circuitry or op amps or diodes etc.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back