Gain vs Master..I was a dummy

[96tbird]

Yes, exactly.

Let me ask you, how gainy does the old V4B get with the gain up and the master down? Is it similar to the newer version if you've ever heard the demos on youtube?

Old v4bs do not have masters.

 

[jnewmark]

Many amps (primarily solid state types) have plenty of gain in the master section, and these amps generally do not do well with the master volume all the way up unless the input signal is very weak.

Also, aren't you taking more of a risk in creating a lot of heat running the Master wide open in these amps ?

 

[gregmon79]

I put my master at full and control volume with my gain. Gives you the cleanest sound possible.

In most cases, this answers your question in plain English OP. Good answer.

 

[Phil508]

My 82 SVT does not have a gain, but sounds great at about 3 anyway.

 

[JimmyM]

So, recently on a thread here, I came across a consensus of sorts that the best tone comes from basically diming your gain and regulating volume with the master. The purpose of having both always did throw me a bit, so I tried it, and yeah, that's clearly the best sound I've gotten from my rig.

This may seem like a noob question for someone who's played as long as I have, but why would anyone dial this in any other way? Who do amps even have both?

The only time I don't run my amps this way is when I'm using a tube amp. I grew up with the non-master amps and never even owned a tube amp with separate gain and master till 2013. So I will dime the master and use gain to control volume because it sounds more like a single volume tube amp. But on a hybrid or SS amp I don't think they have any balls unless I crank the gain to its highest point before distortion.

 

[JRA]

interesting discussion! i'm going to go play with my rig and see what the 'deal is'. i'll get back if i form an informed opinion. thanks.

 

[jazzmanmike]

I use an ashdown 500w evo 3 and generally have the volume and gain at 2oclock. Plenty of umph with no distortion.

 

[MoeTown1986]

It can go either way. On my ampegs, I keep the gain at like 3 o'clock and us the master or volume. On my aguilar, I keep the gain at like noon and master for volume. On my GK's, I keep my master at noon and use gain for volume. They're all different.

 

[agedhorse]

Also, aren't you taking more of a risk in creating a lot of heat running the Master wide open in these amps ?

Only if the signal is high enough to exceed rated power.

 

[BluesWalker]

On my LMIII, I put Master at about 12 O'Clock. I then dial in the Gain to get the desired sound. Gain can be variable depending upon the pedals I am using. For some I have to keep the gain low to keep out hissing noise, for others or with no pedals Gain will be at almost 12 O'Clock. I will also tweak volume with the bass controls.

 

[Bushrod Johnson]

...But on a hybrid or SS amp I don't think they have any balls unless I crank the gain to its highest point before distortion.

...and different basses have different outputs. On one of mine I can use max gain; another only 2/3rds.

 

[RyanKW]

The only time I don't run my amps this way is when I'm using a tube amp. I grew up with the non-master amps and never even owned a tube amp with separate gain and master till 2013. So I will dime the master and use gain to control volume because it sounds more like a single volume tube amp. But on a hybrid or SS amp I don't think they have any balls unless I crank the gain to its highest point before distortion.

Yes, this is mirroring my experience.

 

[Doner Designs]

I usually end up adjusting so as to minimize hiss. Generally that means the two controls move together but it does depend a lot on the amp and its design.

 

[BassmanPaul]

BassmanPaul- Novice question here: If your amp is maxed, and you encounter a transient, like static discharge after walking across a carpet on stage, do you not risk really popping your whole system, amp and boxes?

In over fifty years of playing I have never encountered a problem with static. My system is properly grounded and any static that does occur safely drains to ground.

Edit: Besides, the physical position of the Master does not limit the output capability of the output stage. Even set to almost minimum the amp will supply it's maximum output if the signal going through the amp is suffecient!

 

[ptensioned]

From the above responses, it's clear that no firm rules apply. Almost every possible combination has been recommended. There are so many signal chain factors, and so many different tone preferences, that the only rule is to go with whatever sounds good to you in your playing environment.

Personally, I prefer a bit of texture in my tone, so don't often use a dimed master, but most of my amps also get too flabby with the gain past about 6 or 7, so it's a blend for me.

The one exception to that is my SWR Super Redhead. It's a famously clean and sterile amp, but with the gain dimed, it takes on a fantastic dimension. Not too dirty, just right. It wasn't something I ever expected that amp to do, and goes to show that experimenting is important..

 

[KevInDaBassment]

I typically do the opposite, master turned way up and control volume with gain. If I want OD on a SS head (I use a GK 700RB-II) I'll kick in one of my pedals. Allllll about controlling those unruly bass waves

 

[JimmyM]

...and different basses have different outputs. On one of mine I can use max gain; another only 2/3rds.

Of course.

 

[TBGFRED]

In over fifty years of playing I have never encountered a problem with static. My system is properly grounded and any static that does occur safely drains to ground.

Edit: Besides, the physical position of the Master does not limit the output capability of the output stage. Even set to almost minimum the amp will supply it's maximum output if the signal going through the amp is suffecient!

Thank you.

 

[chaosMK]

I like to try every combination of Gain and Master (especially on tube amps). Some amps seem to have a certain sweet spot and if tube power sections are involved you might be negotiating tone with other things like volume level. I like to run my Mesa fairly clean on the preamp but with the power section pushed to the threshold of breakup.

 

[BasementWarrior]

For my SVT3-PRO Ampeg recommended turning up the master and balancing the volume on the gain. I could never get the master full up because of the hiss but when backed off 2 clicks it was was fine. A great sound.

Most D class amps I've used since then I run the gain on noon and balance the volume on the master. Works very well for a clean, full, punchy sound.

Interesting. I also run an SVT-3 pro. I dime the gain and adjust volume with the master. Different strokes I guess.