Double Bass Gary Karr's fingerings

[Les Fret]

I was watching some videos of Gary Karr today and I noticed his fingerings are quite different than I am used to.

What I notice is:
1) He uses his 3rd finger a lot, also in lower positions. Mostly holding 2nd and 3rd finger together.
2) He uses 1st and 2nd fingers a lot for whole tone distances. Where many would use 1 4
3) In thumb position he seems to hold all fingers very close together and shifting a lot with the 3rd finger

As can be seen in this video (great song and played very beautiful):


Can someone explain more on his left hand technique? Is it Italian or just his own?

 

[groooooove]

i remember hearing him say he was interested in electric bass fingering of a major scale (in one position.) and that he adopted that into his playing.. this is just an assumption on what hes doing and that statement, that i think its mostly his own thing. i play with a similar technique in higher positions the way he does with the 3rd finger.. just feels nice and makes heavy vibrato feel great.

 

[Rob Thompson]

3) In thumb position he seems to hold all fingers very close together and shifting a lot with the 3rd finger

I think it's the 2nd (middle) finger that he uses almost exclusively above the neck joint.

 

[Tom Gale]

I was watching some videos of Gary Karr today and I noticed his fingerings are quite different than I am used to.

What I notice is:
1) He uses his 3rd finger a lot, also in lower positions. Mostly holding 2nd and 3rd finger together.
2) He uses 1st and 2nd fingers a lot for whole tone distances. Where many would use 1 4
3) In thumb position he seems to hold all fingers very close together and shifting a lot with the 3rd finger

As can be seen in this video (great song and played very beautiful):


Hope this helps;
He has always used the open hand tech - 1,.2,3,4 - as well as the traditional 1,2,4 or closed hand.
The third finger is the weakest of them all so supporting it with the 2nd - esp in lower positions - is very helpful.
If you have a lyrical note to emphasize, the 2nd works much better than the 4th. Probably the reason for a 1 - 2 instead of the 1 4.
In the thumb positions, the 3rd finger can be VERY lyrical - even better than the 1st or 2nd for vibrato, as long as you don't open the fingers too much.
Tom Gale
ASDODB.com

 

[Les Fret]

If you have a lyrical note to emphasize, the 2nd works much better than the 4th. Probably the reason for a 1 - 2 instead of the 1 4.

shouldn't it be your goal to have a lyrical vibrato on each finger? so therefor it will not matter which finger you use for 'lyrical' notes (?)....

I think it's the 2nd (middle) finger that he uses almost exclusively above the neck joint.

You might be right. It is hard to see which fingers he is using above the 1st octave G

 

[Tom Gale]

shouldn't it be your goal to have a lyrical vibrato on each finger? so therefor it will not matter which finger you use for 'lyrical' notes (?)....

Then why does Gary use so much of the 2nd finger in lyrical playing and not the 4th? It's because the left hand vibrato is better balanced and more intense using the 2nd due to the structure of the hand.
I've seen Gary play lyrical pieces using only the 2nd finger for the entire piece!
Tom Gale

 

[neilG]

I've seen Gary play lyrical pieces using only the 2nd finger for the entire piece!
Tom Gale

This is a GOOD thing? Imagine, if you will, a cellist playing this way. You'd feel sorry for the accident that left him unable to use the rest of his hand. I don't like this sound. It sounds like shmearing from note to note, which basically it is, no matter how accurate. To me, it makes no sense musically or ergonomically.

 

[Stick_Player]

I've seen Gary play lyrical pieces using only the 2nd finger for the entire piece!

No rule, that I know of, that says one can't.

 

[Tom Gale]

No rule, that I know of, that says one can't.

I should add he was doing a very lyrical piece with many portamentos. It was beautiful BUT when necessary, those 4 fingers can FLY! The first I ever heard of him was when I bought a 10' L.P. a LONG time ago. It changed my life.
TG

 

[Cory Palmer]

shouldn't it be your goal to have a lyrical vibrato on each finger? so therefor it will not matter which finger you use for 'lyrical' notes (?)....

Ideally your goal should be to have a nice lyric vibrato with every finger but in reality each finger is probably going to have a little bit different quality. With the way Gary Karr plays it's going to be much easier to get that big, juicy, lyric vibrato with the weight of his hand centered on the 2nd finger.

 

[eerbrev]

This is a GOOD thing? Imagine, if you will, a cellist playing this way. You'd feel sorry for the accident that left him unable to use the rest of his hand. I don't like this sound. It sounds like shmearing from note to note, which basically it is, no matter how accurate. To me, it makes no sense musically or ergonomically.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3rlfp7oiQk

or even better,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8kuoBvQLR0&feature=related
you don't get to see him play in this clip, but the man's got chops. I've been told you need to see the man live to really get what he and his technique are all about. I do admit that it is strange, but it represents a very specific style of playing, in many ways a throw back to early recorded violinists: very romanticised, heavy on the glissandos. It's not for everybody, but calling it bad or musically nonsensical is a fallacy. His recordings of all 6 cello suites are also very interesting to listen to.

eerbrev

 

[neilG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3rlfp7oiQk


you don't get to see him play in this clip, but the man's got chops. I've been told you need to see the man live to really get what he and his technique are all about. I do admit that it is strange, but it represents a very specific style of playing, in many ways a throw back to early recorded violinists: very romanticised, heavy on the glissandos. It's not for everybody, but calling it bad or musically nonsensical is a fallacy. His recordings of all 6 cello suites are also very interesting to listen to.

eerbrev

I agree with all the above. I've seen him in recital, even played a friends wedding with him. The guy can play. MY point is, in keeping with the original poster, there's not much to be learned, IMNSHO, from this video or this style of playing. I didn't really call it bad OR musical nonsense, I implied that I didn't like the style, and said that it didn't make musical sense to me.

With so much talk about expanding bass technique, this seems to me a less than stellar example. Quality is another discussion.

 

[eerbrev]

I agree with all the above. I've seen him in recital, even played a friends wedding with him. The guy can play. MY point is, in keeping with the original poster, there's not much to be learned, IMNSHO, from this video or this style of playing. I didn't really call it bad OR musical nonsense, I implied that I didn't like the style, and said that it didn't make musical sense to me.

With so much talk about expanding bass technique, this seems to me a less than stellar example. Quality is another discussion.

I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree regarding whether or not there's much to be learned from how Mr. Karr plays. No hard feelings?

It's really cool that you've had the chance to play with the guy. I go to school with someone who studied with him, and he's pretty much got only good things to say. not to get OT, but how was he to work with? just a curiosity.

eerbrev

 

[Les Fret]

The guy can play. MY point is, in keeping with the original poster, there's not much to be learned, IMNSHO, from this video or this style of playing.

I have to disagree with this. I have learned a lot just be watching this video and playing this song: to be open minded at different fingerings but also the way he applies vibrato and plays rubato. Very inspiring! although it is a simple melody it is not easy to play it that beautiful.

Then why does Gary use so much of the 2nd finger in lyrical playing and not the 4th? It's because the left hand vibrato is better balanced and more intense using the 2nd due to the structure of the hand.

when playing on the G string below the 1st octave G I don't notice much difference in expressiveness between my 2nd and 4th finger.
vibrato. But playing low on the E string I do. It much harder to get a nice vibrato on the note G (E string) with the 4th finger then with the 2nd finger.

 

[neilG]

I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree regarding whether or not there's much to be learned from how Mr. Karr plays. No hard feelings?

Not at all! This forum is for exchanging ideas and opinions. Everybody gets to air them.

It's really cool that you've had the chance to play with the guy. I go to school with someone who studied with him, and he's pretty much got only good things to say. not to get OT, but how was he to work with? just a curiosity.

eerbrev

It was a while ago, but I remember him as a really friendly guy. Very soft-spoken, I thought. He's also quite generous: I found a piece in a catalog written for him that I couldn't find, wrote to him about it and he just sent me a copy.
Since he's a recorded artist and public figure, I don't have a problem with offering some criticism about his art. I think that's fair to do, and if I've been seen as unduly cruel, that wasn't my intention. You can bet he doesn't care what I think about his fingerings!