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Double Bass Gave up my class D amp for valves!

#21
Just curious, have any of you tube versus solid-state testers ever done a well-controlled blindfold test where you play your own instrument through various pieces of equipment without you seeing or handling the equipment yourself? If so, please describe your results.

My history: Owned a B-15 through college and slightly beyond. I sold it for $150 to a friend's high-school age sons for use in their rock band after I bought a W.Woods head. I was never much impressed with the B-15 sound, especially after getting the W.Woods, but it did improve after replacing the original speaker with an EV-15. I couldn't flip the head into the box with the EV speaker installed (too big) but the sound was well worth that inconvenience.

Also, I had to look up "nixie clock". Now I know what I've been missing in my sound all these years.
 
#23
yeah, Im sooo glad Im not a DB guy because i think that "my bass only louder" chase would drive me INSANE!!! Ive heard of the challenges you guys go thru to replicate the beloved tone of your sweetheart bass. GEEZ! that would be infuriating.
 
#24
Ric Vice said:
Mr.PC
My interest is definitely peaked, but since I own a vintage B-15B(C) my interest is only cursory. At one time I actually had a 50 watt B-15N(D) in my possesion. Since I have a Walter Woods MI-400-8 I can attest to Les' comments about SS design. It sounds incredible and weighs 9 lbs.

Ric
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Yes Ric, my interest is piqued too. Seems like some upright players might be using these in the near future.
 
#25
eyeballkid said:
yeah, Im sooo glad Im not a DB guy because i think that "my bass only louder" chase would drive me INSANE!!! Ive heard of the challenges you guys go thru to replicate the beloved tone of your sweetheart bass. GEEZ! that would be infuriating.
Click to expand...

I always thought you guys over there (in BG Land) are involved in a similar pursuit - "My Bass, Only REALLY Louder"! (jk)
(I own a BG and a very loud AMP as well...).
Thanks.
 
#27
eyeballkid said:
I understand where you're coming from and Im definitely one that can discuss this without getting pissy. Where I disagree with you is kind of on your last sentence and that you assert that its just a transfer function of the lower mid-range response. Yes you can adjust EQs and such, but Ive tried tons of tube emulators and hybrid amps. They may be the same in the naked frequency response and even emulate or model the breakup in a way thats good enough for gubberment work. BUT, its not an opinion I would say, that there is a quantifiable distinct auditory difference in the heft, richness and body of the tone even if the spectrum analysis looks the same. PERHAPS, there is a POSSIBLE solid state amp that could do the same. I havent found it yet. I have found some simply beautiful sounding hybrid amps, but they have always paled in comparison to me in a A/B test. I even have, and still do have, the solid state/hybrid and tube versions of the exact same amp. The differences in tone, body, richness, and feel are incredible! I can play either and be happy in a live situation, and I WISH the hybrid did it for me like the tube as life would be alot easier, but it doesnt. Im not bashing solid state and hybrids. They are a wonderful choice for alot of guys, but it just isnt the same for some of us, and I am begrudgingly in that expensive and heavy lifting group.
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Well, I do think it is in the transfer function. As I said, the emulations msy just not capture the essence. There could be factors more directly characterized as temporal as well and on that score, the SS designs would typically provide more faithful reproduction. By the way, to the extent they are objectively quantifiable, the physical underpinnings of the perception of heft, richness, and body would be manifest as changes in the transfer function. The story is a bit more complex than I can reasonably convey in these threads as I'd have to write more than most would tolerate reading here. :)
 
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#28
Greg Clinkingbeard said:
I've skipped most of this thread, so forgive me. I believe tube and transistor amps sound very different. Whether it's all 'frequency anomalies' or not I can't say. From my experience suffering from 'audiophilia' and building tube amps I always enjoyed the purity of sound tube amps offered. Tube amps are pretty simple circuits and I think the music comes through better, especially in the midrange. For gigging I prefer a small class D amp.
Glad you are happy.
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Yes, there are some simple tube circuits that do sound wonderful. What many perceive as purity is actually not if one uses faithful reproduction of the waveform as a criterion. I do agree though that folks should enjoy whatever sound they prefer. My goal here was to try to describe the physical aspects of the circuits that are responsible for the subjective reports.
 
#29
drurb said:
Yes, there are some simple tube circuits that do sound wonderful. What many perceive as purity is actually not if one uses faithful reproduction of the waveform as a criterion. I do agree though that folks should enjoy whatever sound they prefer. My goal here was to try to describe the physical aspects of the circuits that are responsible for the subjective reports.
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+1
I've listend to a whole slew of new solid state amps with a single 12AX7 in their preamps. To me they don't sound all that different. Just my take. The Gallien Krueger MB Fusions have a full set of three tubes and although I can hear a difference between those amps and their MB heads, GK's preamp voicing tends to over shadow whatever components are used. Just my take.

Ric
 
#30
Ric Vice said:
+1
I've listend to a whole slew of new solid state amps with a single 12AX7 in their preamps. To me they don't sound all that different. Just my take. The Gallien Krueger MB Fusions have a full set of three tubes and although I can hear a difference between those amps and their MB heads, GK's preamp voicing tends to over shadow whatever components are used. Just my take.

Ric
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Indeed, Rick. Most of the reports of tube sounding "different" and/or "better" stem from tube power-amp sections and their associated output transformers. Of course, "better" is an opinion and no one could or should argue with opinions. Your comment is quite important because it relates to the fact that the variance across amps within a type (SS or tube-based) can be quite great, especially when one considers the voicing that some designers bake into the circuit. I've certainly heard some wonderful and some awful exemplars within each of those types.
 

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