GC QC

[gln1955]

If (insert name on headstock) puts a QC tag on the product and states that it is good, then why should GC (or any other store for that matter) question the set up?

Right. Because once an instrument is set up at the factory, it never changes. LOL!

 

[Engle]

And there's the difference. This thread is not discussing CL purchases, it's discussing GC purchases.

Guitar Center gives you 45 days to set it up (to your standards - not those of some transient sales clerk who may know next to nothing about set-ups - and within reason so as not to void the warranty and return policy), hunker down over it, audition it to you heart's content, and make sure it's 100% to your liking. That's why it's not a gamble to buy a poorly set-up guitar at GC, and that probably contributes to their reluctance to set up a bass just to (1) have the owner take his own tools to it and re-set it up to his liking, and (2) have the bass returned because the buyer was just testing it out.

In reality, frozen/bent/effed up truss rods (on anything above a used Squier on CL) are pretty rare. I'd bet my entire bass and guitar collection against yours that the bass in the OP is not suffering from a bad truss rod. And even if it is, the buyer is out nothing, zero, zilch, nada. Return policy to the rescue!

And now that more and more GC's are featuring something a little closer to a "qualified tech" on staff, you can even make the purchase with the understanding that you want the bass bumped to the front of the line and the tech to do a basic twenty-minute set-up on it so you can start playing and enjoying it. If you're that paranoid about it, after the tech is done and before you leave the store, plug it in and see what it does after a decent set-up. If it's not a player or has a flaw, you don't even have to leave the store with it, just march it back to the counter, say, "No good," and get an immediate refund.

There's also a good chance that a staff member might be willing to simply stick a hex wrench in there and give the rod a slight twist just to see if it works, if that's your only concern. Adjusting rods doesn't change warranty or return policy.

If I could only purchase a bass or guitar that was set up to my liking right off the rack or out of the box, I'd own zero guitars and basses. I might even play a basic generic set up and not know what to think, because my set up requirements are far from "generic," so it's hard to say how helpful a "generic" set-up would be. Also, a rod can be frozen in the "generic" position as well, so there are no guarantees there either.

FWIW, I currently own over 100 guitars and basses, have probably sold off another 50, and not one came to me set up to my liking and ready for the stage and studio. To most players, the average generic set-up equals "close, but no cigar," and can be just as misleading. So we're going to have to invest the time and effort anyway.

In short, you want to blame the noobs at GC for losing a sale because they didn't set it up and make it "more playable?" Go ahead. It's a mathematical certainty you are only cheating yourself out of a great bass. Experienced players and smart buyers know better.

Point taken - we're not talking about CL purchases.

Hey do you own a GC franchise? You have an awful lot of guitars/basses and you're very passionate about their return policy

Seriously, you're right. It's good that GC has that return policy. No risk - unless you live hours away from the store.

I don't think I've ever bought a bass that didn't need adjustments to get it to where I liked it either.

But I would never buy a bass presented to me with 1/2"+ relief? How could I judge the quality of the fretwork? Or how it reacts to soft/hard playing. Does it sing in the upper register? I can't tell if I can't play it past the 5th fret. In short how could I even tell if I liked it?
As a discriminating buyer, I need to ensure I can groove on a bass before I walk out the door with it.

I have never seen a frozen truss rod, but in my 39 years of playing, repairing and setting up guitars and basses, I have seen necks that have a forward bow that's beyond the ability of the truss rod to adjust.

 

[Engle]

Or blaming the car salesman because when you went to do a test drive you had to adjust the seat, steering wheel, mirrors, and the radio wasn't tuned to your favorite station.

Car analogy?
It's like you go to test drive a car and the seat is set so far back, you can barely reach the pedals, even though you're 6ft tall. You try driving it, but it's really uncomfortable, so you just go around the block and bring it back.
The only way to adjust the seat is to loosen off the seat cover and turn a bolt with an allen key.
The guys at the car dealership are too busy to adjust the seat for the average person. It came from the factory that way, so it's not really their responsibility.
But the car comes with the allen key and you can return it no questions asked if you don't like it after all.

 

[electracoyote]

Car analogy?
It's like you go to test drive a car and the seat is set so far back, you can barely reach the pedals, even though you're 6ft tall. You try driving it, but it's really uncomfortable, so you just go around the block and bring it back.
The only way to adjust the seat is to loosen off the seat cover and turn a bolt with an allen key.
The guys at the car dealership are too busy to adjust the seat for the average person. It came from the factory that way, so it's not really their responsibility.
But the car comes with the allen key and you can return it no questions asked if you don't like it after all.

Well, for some of us, the basics of guitar set up are not nearly as painful as you make it sound. If you find set up basics that difficult, you have my sympathy.

For people like you, there are guitar and bass techs to do it for you.

Sheesh, you make a half turn twist on a truss rod sound like a major feat of mechanical engineering. It's not.

 

[electracoyote]

But I would never buy a bass presented to me with 1/2"+ relief? How could I judge the quality of the fretwork? Or how it reacts to soft/hard playing. Does it sing in the upper register? I can't tell if I can't play it past the 5th fret. In short how could I even tell if I liked it?.

We're going full circle here, but I'll try once more.

When you "buy" an instrument from GC, you're not really "buying" it until your 45 days expires. It's a trial period. You get that, right?

45 days is enough time to not only adjust the rod, check the frets, test for playability across the entire fretboard, and see if the bass "sings" and "grooves" for you, but you can even do complex chemical analysis of the molecular structure of the tone wood to see if it meets your standards if you like. Just find a little saw dust or sliver in the control cavity and send it off to the lab. You can do a few five-day music marathons with it in your underwear, no sleep. If you're like me and play flats, and the bass is strung with rounds (which they almost always are), you're not going to be able to tell how it sounds under your playing conditions in the store. String it with your strings, take it to rehearsal, and give it a real workout under your playing conditions during those 45 days. You can't do that in the store anyway you slice it. Just don't alter it aside from simple set-up procedures, and the bass isn't a "purchase" for 45 days.

And, at risk of repeating myself once again, I know for certain people who are easily spooked and pass on basses because of the purely superficial and uninformed reason that the set up was off are almost always cheating themselves out of a great bass guitar. I've purchased some basses that looked worse than that in the OP, and a basic twenty-minute set-up to my exact needs and standards made them fantastic players.

Now good sir, that choice is certainly yours to make, and I respect you either way, but I think the point has been made quite thoroughly.

 

[catcauphonic]

If i ordered that from their website & the ad clearly didn't show it or state that 'it needs fussing with the rod,' I'd be pretty disappointed ... don't care how easy of a fix it is.

I never thought of a purchase from GC as a 'trial period,' though i know they have a liberal return policy and appreciate that ... if a bass doesn't sing to me in store, I'm not taking it home. More experienced tinkerers may disagree.

Personally, i think they should have a little more pride in their inventory once they're made aware of it.

 

[gln1955]

People defending GC in the case the OP shows is beyond mind boggling. How easy it is to fix irrelevant unless you want to have to take your tools to GC and fix their basses before you give them a tryout.

 

[electracoyote]

How easy it is to fix irrelevant unless you want to have to take your tools to GC and fix their basses before you give them a tryout.

Fix what isn't broken? Mind boggling indeed. Surely you mean to use the word "adjust."

Why on earth would you make your personal adjustments at GC when you can do it at your leisure in the comfort of your home and take 45 days? Again, mind boggling.

There's also a chance they have a staffer who can set it up for you if you're serious about a purchase. I've witnessed a GC employee twist a truss rod before. Sometimes, it really as simple as "Ask nice."

Perfect world: GC employees take the time to adjust the bass for your playing needs (of course they don't really know how you like your bass set up, but never mind that detail).

Real world: DIY wins the day.

The most mind-boggling thing about this thread IMHO is that it's yet another superfluous lame-o GC bash-fest full of overkill, hyperbole, and internet chest beating, over a truss rod that probably needs about 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

 

[gln1955]

The most mind-boggling thing about this thread IMHO is that it's yet another superfluous lame-o GC bash-fest over a truss rod that probably needs about 1/4 to 1/2 turn.

Really? Three possibilities here:

1. You didn't look at the picture the OP posted.
2. You've never adjusted a trust rod.
3. You're determined to continue a rather silly argument.

 

[electracoyote]

Really? Three possibilities here:

1. You didn't look at the picture the OP posted.
2. You've never adjusted a trust rod.
3. You're determined to continue a rather silly argument.

yeah, I did look at the OP, lol, and I've tweaked more than a few truss rods.

Until one of us gets it in his hands to see how much the nut slots and saddle height are contributing to the illusion on those inconclusive pics, it is a silly argument.

And until the string tension is checked and the rod actually gets turned, who knows what we're looking at? I've had Jazz necks that looked like that and sometimes a half turn can make a dramatic difference.

And to those who say it makes for a bad appearance and impression, I agree. I know playing devil's advocate on the weekly GC-bash thread is very unpopular.

 

[4001]

I know playing devil's advocate on the weekly GC-bash thread is very unpopular.

Maybe if GC didn't have such a sparkling reputation, there wouldn't be a 'weekly bash thread'.
The very first time I was in a GC was back in 1978. I was 12 then and went with a friend and his dad to check out the new guitar my friend was getting. It was a Gibson ES-335. Real nice guitar. When they brought it home, dad noticed the word "second" stamped on the headstock. Just like they don't notice a badly warped neck on a bass in 2017, they didn't notice that they sold a factory second to my friend (but they charged him for a un-flawed or 'new' guitar). Nice try at a ripoff.
It was just my first memory of that place and although I have done lots of business with them since 1982 or so, it doesn't mean I care for the way they run their business.

Yes, there is a chance that the neck will straighten out but to let it get to that point is just pure stupidity and to have it hanging on the wall only for customers to not be able to play it hurts GC. You're not going to get their 'repair' guy to fix it right away if you want. Maybe you could come in on another day and see if it was fixed but how many people are going to do that?

I'd prefer to have a bass that needs a neck adjustment (aside from the final tweak at the store) maybe after I've owned it for awhile.

My guess is that bass will be in the same condition if I went back next week.
I should go in and pose as a 'customer' and ask them to adjust it so I can try it out. That might be fun.

 

[electracoyote]

Maybe if GC didn't have such a sparkling reputation, there wouldn't be a 'weekly bash thread'.
The very first time I was in a GC was back in 1978. I was 12 then and went with a friend and his dad to check out the new guitar my friend was getting. It was a Gibson ES-335. Real nice guitar. When they brought it home, dad noticed the word "second" stamped on the headstock. Just like they don't notice a badly warped neck on a bass in 2017, they didn't notice that they sold a factory second to my friend (but they charged him for a un-flawed or 'new' guitar). Nice try at a ripoff.
It was just my first memory of that place and although I have done lots of business with them since 1982 or so, it doesn't mean I care for the way they run their business.

Yes, there is a chance that the neck will straighten out but to let it get to that point is just pure stupidity and to have it hanging on the wall only for customers to not be able to play it hurts GC. You're not going to get their 'repair' guy to fix it right away if you want. Maybe you could come in on another day and see if it was fixed but how many people are going to do that?

I'd prefer to have a bass that needs a neck adjustment (aside from the final tweak at the store) maybe after I've owned it for awhile.

My guess is that bass will be in the same condition if I went back next week.
I should go in and pose as a 'customer' and ask them to adjust it so I can try it out. That might be fun.

Wow. So you've witnessed GC intentionally scamming people since clear back to 1978. That will surely leave a scar with an agenda to match. Threads like this must be very cathartic for you.

Well, you may as well complete the picture, have your fun, and "pose" as a buyer for us then, let's see how they handle it if you feign interest in buying the bass. But for a little balance and verification, why not tell us which store you saw this bass in? I wouldn't mind following up on this one. I'm just as eager as the next guy to end the posturing and speculation and would really like to get to the truth of it. If they won't tweak the rod for you, I believe they will for me, until proven otherwise.

Time to put some reality to some of these threads, dontcha think? It'll be an interesting social experiment.

I've saved the pics from the OP so the store doesn't make any mistake about which bass I'm talking about when I call. I await further word from you on how to proceed.

 

[mdogs]

Maybe if GC didn't have such a sparkling reputation, there wouldn't be a 'weekly bash thread'.
The very first time I was in a GC was back in 1978. I was 12 then and went with a friend and his dad to check out the new guitar my friend was getting. It was a Gibson ES-335. Real nice guitar. When they brought it home, dad noticed the word "second" stamped on the headstock. Just like they don't notice a badly warped neck on a bass in 2017, they didn't notice that they sold a factory second to my friend (but they charged him for a un-flawed or 'new' guitar). Nice try at a ripoff.
It was just my first memory of that place and although I have done lots of business with them since 1982 or so, it doesn't mean I care for the way they run their business.

Yes, there is a chance that the neck will straighten out but to let it get to that point is just pure stupidity and to have it hanging on the wall only for customers to not be able to play it hurts GC. You're not going to get their 'repair' guy to fix it right away if you want. Maybe you could come in on another day and see if it was fixed but how many people are going to do that?

I'd prefer to have a bass that needs a neck adjustment (aside from the final tweak at the store) maybe after I've owned it for awhile.

My guess is that bass will be in the same condition if I went back next week.
I should go in and pose as a 'customer' and ask them to adjust it so I can try it out. That might be fun.

Not sure which GC this happened in, but I can tell you that a friend of mine bought a Les Paul Standard from the GC on Milwaukee in Chicago in 1979. It was a second and clearly marked as a second, they used to sell a lot of those back then. It was a great guitar then, he still has it and it's still a great guitar. We still have never figured out what was wrong with it...

At this point in GCs evolution, they couldn't care less about basses, it's not where the money is at. But yet, almost daily someone on here is butt hurt because they feel they have been wronged by GC...this bass is priced too high, this bass has old strings on it, this bass looks like Goldilocks ate porridge on it...Get over it!!! We all know what they are, either accept that or don't, but please spare us the incessant whining...

 

[fhm555]

I've seen quite a few Fender basses and guitars in the last few years that came out of the box with slack truss rods and loose strings, enough it leads me to wonder if they are all shipped that way with the expectation that the retailer will throw a setup on them.

 

[5544]

Right. Because once an instrument is set up at the factory, it never changes. LOL!

Exactly how much does the setup change during the time it leaves the factory to the shop's floor?

I cannot speak for Fender but when my 2011 Lakland Skyline arrived to my home in 2016, I just tuned the strings and the setup was very good. Before you try and tell me that the shop set it up, then explain why there was 5 years of untouched dust on the thing.

 

[5544]

People defending GC in the case the OP shows is beyond mind boggling. How easy it is to fix irrelevant unless you want to have to take your tools to GC and fix their basses before you give them a tryout.

Here is a thought. Instead of judging Guitar Center based on a bad setup, why not compare the setup of different guitars & basses from the same company against a different company.

If the majority of Company A's instruments have a bad setup but majority of Company B, C, and D has a good setup, then it is very possible that Company A, not Guitar Center, is the root cause of problem.

I should add that there is no Guitar Center in the Netherlands or I would be doing the work myself.

 

[Bolsyo]

Even if it turned out that it arrived like this from Fender, it should be the store's responsibility to do an inspection and initial setup before putting it on display. All instruments being unboxed and going up on display should be inspected first to check for functionality issues or damage!

Do you think every bass gets shipped immediately once it's made, straight from the factory to the store? The instruments have probably been laying in storage for weeks or months before they eventually end up being displayed in the store. First by the company that made them and in GCs storage warehouses. Of course the shop it responsible for doing an inspection first.

 

[BAG]

My daughter recently did a week of school based work experience at one of the biggest music instrument stores in Australia. One of the first things they did was teach her to do a basic setup (she knew most of it from me), and to tune any instrument she handled. It shows in how good this particular store is. It is rare to pick up a guitar, bass, uke or mandolin in that store that isn't pretty close to properly tuned and (semi)decently setup. Sure, you're going to want to set it up to your tastes, but nothing in the store would ever be allowed to look like the OP's photo.

I've recently found out how low I like my action. The luthier who i have had working on my basses was a bit surprised that I wanted my fretless nut lower than he first set it up. Once he did this the second time it was perfect for me. When he did the fret ends and rolled the edges of the fingerboard on my Warmoth neck (on the MIJ Franken bass) he used that info to set up the Pbass. It's stupidly low, and works perfectly for me.

We all like something a bit different, but there is not one bass player in the world that would want a setup like that in the OP.

 

[4001]

......but nothing in the store would ever be allowed to look like the OP's photo.

All I was trying to say.

It happens to be GC and their responsibility is to have every single guitar in that store set up well enough to at least play it. It turns into I'm "bashing" GC because I dare call out a place that calls themselves "Guitar Center" and a large percentage of the business.

If I had the ability to have a "Guitar Center" of my own, my own guitar store, I can tell you right now that no guitar in my shop would ever be on display with a neck like that. I would consider that a MAJOR fail.

I find it pathetic that a place calling itself "Guitar Center" presents instruments like this to their customers.

It is possible that the neck was flawed from the beginning and this is the end result. I do not know if the store has had issues with this particular bass before but it's not playable and for not one employee to notice it, is pretty weak.

 

[gln1955]

Exactly how much does the setup change during the time it leaves the factory to the shop's floor?

I cannot speak for Fender but when my 2011 Lakland Skyline arrived to my home in 2016, I just tuned the strings and the setup was very good. Before you try and tell me that the shop set it up, then explain why there was 5 years of untouched dust on the thing.

How it got to this state is irrelevant. If a car arrives at a dealership with a flat tire, you're not gonna debate if it left the factory that way and you're not gonna leave it on the lot in that state. Why is it such a stretch to think a store should present its products in the best light possible when it only takes a few minutes to do so?