Gene Simmons [still] Thinks Rock Is Dead

[Polkatronixx]

Do you understand the term 'agree to disagree?' It means we will never agree, and it's best to stop the conversation. Well, I'm now asking. Stop. This. Conversation. Thank you.

Relax, snowflake. Jesus.

You can't just light the fuse and run away. If you post something, expect people to respond. You cannot decide when it's time to quit. You can quit responding if you want to - no need to be such a baby about it. Maybe you just want the last word?

 

[Polkatronixx]

My 2 cents. It's a free country, we are free to state our differences.

No one here is telling you that you cannot state an opinion. You're the one getting his knickers in a twist because people disagree with you.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

No one here is telling you that you cannot state an opinion. You're the one getting his knickers in a twist because people disagree with you.

1. I don't wear knickers.
2. Congratulations. You're the first person I used the "Ignore user" feature on.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

Well, you can easily blame that one on the music industry.
The bands are still out there. Look at Greta van Fleet.
What's not around anymore is a label that will sign them
and sink a few million dollars into developing them into
world stars. Glamour costs money. You can easily rant about
that when you're Gene Simmons and you know that you can
fill a venue holding 10k people at $75 per ticket. You want pyro?
Glitter cannons? A huge stage with an awesome show? Not a problem.
All the glamour you crave will be paid for by your loyal fan base that
stuck to you since the late eighties.

I suppose the absulute peak of the industry
was in the early nineties, when the CD took over. CD's did
cost more because they were 'better', but they were a LOT
cheaper to produce. And people were still buying them, because
the only way to make a copy was an audio cassette.
They were making obscene amounts of money and had no problem
making even more by spending a few millions into elevating a promising
newcomer to world stardom.

Well put!

 

[Polkatronixx]

1. I don't wear knickers.
2. Congratulations. You're the first person I used the "Ignore user" feature on.

1. I don't wear knickers.
2. Congratulations. You're the first person I used the "Ignore user" feature on.

 

[jerry]

If it was 90's conspiracy it sure did fail, nobody's getting paid now except streaming services and they weren't around then.

 

[SimonSays32]

The music that is in the mainstream - hip-hop, neo-soul, bubblegum pop, etc. has been dominating the mainstream since the late 90s. Rock was already fading away then - even the guitar based bands that could be classified as "rock" were already on the way out by the mid 2000s.

The Killers, The Strokes, The White Stripes, The Black Keys, Frans Ferdinand, The Mars Volta, etc. etc. etc. etc. were nowhere near as popular as Beyonce or Eminem. That there isn't any real big new guitar based rock bands coming into the mainstream at the moment isn't a sign that rock is dead - it is that the industry can only afford to spend money on original music acts the way they used to.

People's tastes have changed as well - the internet has demystified music a little, especially guitar. But I mean - this hasn't stopped me from making and releasing music, just because there isn't a large mainstream audience for it anymore.

Is it kind of crappy that most music that is charting anymore sounds homogeneous and without genre - kind of, but I mean the only time I have to hear that music is sometimes when I am at work or in a mall or something. Outside of that I can choose when I listen to it, and can take it on my own terms - not all of the mainstream is terrible, it is worth keeping up to date on the trends if only to eschew them if it starts to creep into your compositions.

Beyond all that - the entertainment industry has changed big time with the gaming industry now taking up a big slice of that mainstream entertainment time pie, with streaming TV series taking up another large serving leaving very little for even Films and especially almost none for Music or Literature all three of which are seeing declining revenue.

Keep in mind, this is just my perspective on this based on purely on my subjective opinion after having enjoyed and studied various forms of entertainment all my life. I am an optimist when thinking about music as an art form, but less so when I think about music's place in the industry at large - at least with regards of it's abilities to entertain the population on the merits of the art form alone.

 

[nik max]

Anyone who lives long enough will eventually watch at least some of the icons of youthful cultural rebellion turn curmudgeon. Goddess, just look at Johnny Rotten and Morrissey. Vomitocious.

Morrissey? he was always a miserable man.

 

[Polkatronixx]

Morrissey? he was always a miserable man.

Yeah, but now he's a miserable racist man.

 

[SLPimp]

Yeah, but now he's a miserable racist man.

Yeah, add Morrissey to the poopy Mt Rushmore with Nugent, Rotten, and Danzig.

 

[Polkatronixx]

Yeah, add Morrissey to the poopy Mt Rushmore with Nugent, Rotten, and Danzig.

At least Dolly Parton is apparently still cool.

 

[SLPimp]

At least Dolly Parton is apparently still cool.

Yeah seems to be. Probably part of growing up dirt poor.

 

[350125g0]

At least Dolly Parton is apparently still cool.

Dolly seems like the pop music world's analogue to Mr. Rogers, and I am 100 % here for it.

All hail Queen Dolly, long may she reign.

 

[Walk The Dogs]

I worked with a young gifted techie years ago. He went to California to attend Berklee School of Music for Recording. One of the first things he learned is a story he told me. How the industry reshaped the "rock pop" scene in the 2000's.

In the late 90's as music changed and the internet was growing, the Powers That Be decided they had to reshape the music industry.

I heard lots of creative stories about The Man (in context, the "Commercial Pop Recording Music Industry") when I was at Berklee. But the fact is, nobody there has a clue about stuff like this. Students live in a Berklee bubble, occupied full time with class load focused on stuff that almost nobody in the actual industry is involved in other than music students elsewhere. Likewise, Boston hasn't been a music industry town since the 1970s and Aerosmith, Boston, The Cars and J. Geils so how would he even know?

The Commercial Pop Recording Music Industry exploits trends for itself and for those who follow it. It's like organized religion or any other cult, including those who glue themselves to the political media. It's an echo chamber. That's been true of commercial music since the 1940s. Only occasionally, maybe once every ten years or so, does a unique artist or sound emerge from the grassroots which is so powerful that he/she/they/it breaks through the monotonous status quo noise and the industry embraces it so it can exploit it. Then it produces ten more years of cookie cutter music just like it, like a music genome suggestion.

That's my theory anyway and it extends back to Sinatra/crooners, Elvis/Buddy Holly/early pop R&R, the Beatles, disco/Donna Summer, power pop, new wave, grunge/Nirvana, hip hop, etc. NB: my theory is no more authoritative, accurate or correct than your Berklee friend's. But at least I know I don't know. But one thing I do know from decades in the NYC music scene: the CPRMI creates nothing, only duplicates, and it only controls those willing to be controlled. The notion that it's a monopolistic Deep State in a Dr Evil back room creating music trends is pretty silly.

I frankly haven't listened to pop music or radio since the 80s. For me, all the CPRMI does is create different flavors of potato chips for a market of people who like potato chips. Someone else invented the potato chip. If the CPRMI manages to discover a truly great artist I haven't already found on my own it will filter into my world sooner or later. Some have but in the meantime, 95% of the more modern stuff I listen to only has a presence on Youtube and streaming music channels, like fado artists, Jacob Collier, Knower and GOASTT. Otherwise, the closest I get to CPRMI music is some idiot stopped next to me at a traffic light with a boombox car.

 

[alaskaleftybass]

I heard lots of creative stories about The Man (in context, the "Commercial Pop Recording Music Industry") when I was at Berklee. But the fact is, nobody there has a clue about stuff like this. Students live in a Berklee bubble, occupied full time with class load focused on stuff that almost nobody in the actual industry is involved in other than music students elsewhere. Likewise, Boston hasn't been a music industry town since the 1970s and Aerosmith, Boston, The Cars and J. Geils so how would he even know?

The Commercial Pop Recording Music Industry exploits trends for itself and for those who follow it. It's like organized religion or any other cult, including those who glue themselves to the political media. It's an echo chamber. That's been true of commercial music since the 1940s. Only occasionally, maybe once every ten years or so, does a unique artist or sound emerge from the grassroots which is so powerful that he/she/they/it breaks through the monotonous status quo noise and the industry embraces it so it can exploit it. Then it produces ten more years of cookie cutter music just like it, like a music genome suggestion.

That's my theory anyway and it extends back to Sinatra/crooners, Elvis/Buddy Holly/early pop R&R, the Beatles, disco/Donna Summer, power pop, new wave, grunge/Nirvana, hip hop, etc. NB: my theory is no more authoritative, accurate or correct than your Berklee friend's. But at least I know I don't know. But one thing I do know from decades in the NYC music scene: the CPRMI creates nothing, only duplicates, and it only controls those willing to be controlled. The notion that it's a monopolistic Deep State in a Dr Evil back room creating music trends is pretty silly.

I frankly haven't listened to pop music or radio since the 80s. For me, all the CPRMI does is create different flavors of potato chips for a market of people who like potato chips. Someone else invented the potato chip. If the CPRMI manages to discover a truly great artist I haven't already found on my own it will filter into my world sooner or later. Some have but in the meantime, 95% of the more modern stuff I listen to only has a presence on Youtube and streaming music channels, like fado artists, Jacob Collier, Knower and GOASTT. Otherwise, the closest I get to CPRMI music is some idiot stopped next to me at a traffic light with a boombox car.

I also misquoted the school and location. It just had a ring of truth to me what he told me. The new pop sound is simplistic and even more repetitious than the choruses of She Loves You Yah Yah Yah that my parents rolled their eyes at when I was young. I do think the music of the 80's is fading into history as great milestone artists pass on even as we speak. It was such a different, exciting world to be a pro musician in the 70's and the 80's.

 

[slam dunk]

I heard lots of creative stories about The Man (in context, the "Commercial Pop Recording Music Industry") when I was at Berklee. But the fact is, nobody there has a clue about stuff like this. Students live in a Berklee bubble, occupied full time with class load focused on stuff that almost nobody in the actual industry is involved in other than music students elsewhere. Likewise, Boston hasn't been a music industry town since the 1970s and Aerosmith, Boston, The Cars and J. Geils so how would he even know?

The Commercial Pop Recording Music Industry exploits trends for itself and for those who follow it. It's like organized religion or any other cult, including those who glue themselves to the political media. It's an echo chamber. That's been true of commercial music since the 1940s. Only occasionally, maybe once every ten years or so, does a unique artist or sound emerge from the grassroots which is so powerful that he/she/they/it breaks through the monotonous status quo noise and the industry embraces it so it can exploit it. Then it produces ten more years of cookie cutter music just like it, like a music genome suggestion.

That's my theory anyway and it extends back to Sinatra/crooners, Elvis/Buddy Holly/early pop R&R, the Beatles, disco/Donna Summer, power pop, new wave, grunge/Nirvana, hip hop, etc. NB: my theory is no more authoritative, accurate or correct than your Berklee friend's. But at least I know I don't know. But one thing I do know from decades in the NYC music scene: the CPRMI creates nothing, only duplicates, and it only controls those willing to be controlled. The notion that it's a monopolistic Deep State in a Dr Evil back room creating music trends is pretty silly.

I frankly haven't listened to pop music or radio since the 80s. For me, all the CPRMI does is create different flavors of potato chips for a market of people who like potato chips. Someone else invented the potato chip. If the CPRMI manages to discover a truly great artist I haven't already found on my own it will filter into my world sooner or later. Some have but in the meantime, 95% of the more modern stuff I listen to only has a presence on Youtube and streaming music channels, like fado artists, Jacob Collier, Knower and GOASTT. Otherwise, the closest I get to CPRMI music is some idiot stopped next to me at a traffic light with a boombox car.

Hello,
I think your post and your pop music theory is as good as any.
College music curriculum is the currency of educators and students. Most of it is non-redeemable in the real working musician world.
Pop music is the clever opportunistic marketing of trends.
In my opinion, there was a renaissance period in the late 60’s through the mid 70’s where many artists seemed to sail their own ships. For example, early fusion groups seemed to have few brakes put on them from “the man” and were encouraged to experiment.
Groups like Chicago, Pink Floyd, Todd Rungren, The Allman Brothers and countless others initially were recording songs and albums that didn’t fit in any cookie cutter status quo.
Today, we have American Idol. A CPRMI vehicle that would never have even given Bob Dylan an audition.
Nuff said.

 

[Polkatronixx]

Hello,
I think your post and your pop music theory is as good as any.
College music curriculum is the currency of educators and students. Most of it is non-redeemable in the real working musician world.
Pop music is the clever opportunistic marketing of trends.
In my opinion, there was a renaissance period in the late 60’s through the mid 70’s where many artists seemed to sail their own ships. For example, early fusion groups seemed to have few brakes put on them from “the man” and were encouraged to experiment.
Groups like Chicago, Pink Floyd, Todd Rungren, The Allman Brothers and countless others initially were recording songs and albums that didn’t fit in any cookie cutter status quo.
Today, we have American Idol. A CPRMI vehicle that would never have even given Bob Dylan an audition.
Nuff said.

It's no different than what happened in the 80s. Lots of bands played somewhat original or seeimingly uncompromising music that put "art" ahead of commerce and there were plenty of similarly-minded independent labels that released the music. Once it was shown to have commercial potential, the major labels got involved and made a lot of money off it.

Some guy apparently just got a record deal because he sings sea shanties on tik tok or something. I doubt that was cooked up in some boardroom somewhere.

 

[Shaggai]

Some guy apparently just got a record deal because he sings sea shanties on tik tok or something. I doubt that was cooked up in some boardroom somewhere.

You know what happens then. Other record companies are going to jump on the bandwagon, and just like Southern Rock or grunge. Then there'll be Shantypalooza festivals or Monsters of Shanty concerts this summer. By this time next year, nary a shanty star will exist.

 

[Polkatronixx]

You know what happens then. Other record companies are going to jump on the bandwagon, and just like Southern Rock or grunge. Then there'll be Shantypalooza festivals or Monsters of Shanty concerts this summer. By this time next year, nary a shanty star will exist.

You'll start seeing crap like Shantybox or Better Than Shanty or Shanty in Chains selling millions of records and the real underground shanty stars will be relegated to opening slots on tours or the second stage at Shantypalooza.

 

[Shaggai]

You'll start seeing crap like Shantybox or Better Than Shanty or Shanty in Chains selling millions of records and the real underground shanty stars will be relegated to opening slots on tours or the second stage at Shantypalooza.

I'd like to think I would be partial to Shanty Temple Pilots, no matter how much the critics say they are a pale image of Shanty Jam.