General tips for DB-ish sounds from ABG please?

[Maxra]

I'd appreciate any tips for getting DB-ish sounds from an ABG (apart from 'Buy a DB'). I have an old 32" Warwick Alien Standard 4 string fretted, with a 3 ply top. Two days ago ago I put on a set of 45-105 Warwick Black nylon tapewound bronze strings. These are non magnetic pickup specific ABG strings with short sustain, little treble and an almost muffled short sustain bass heavy 'thump' on the lower strings. The blurb says 'Double bass sound with precise intonation'. I'll be happy if they just go somewhere towards DB sound, and I'm not sure I've achieved the precise intonation bit on the low E yet. I suspect it might be the setup that's responsible, although I'm not yet used listening to the low overtones the low E string produces.

This bass was previously set up for pressurewound bronzes, with low action and very little neck relief. When I first put the current strings on, it seemed like the low E wasn't quite in tune up the neck. I increased the relief a bit by winding off the truss rod half a turn - it rattles less on the low E and seems to be a bit more in tune. Do you think it might benefit from a higher action, and any other tips please?

 

[Standalone]

Frets and DB are sort of at cross purposes. I think muting is going to be the key here to mellow and fatten the tone.

One really great muting technique I picked up from SBL was this motown sort of tone that was achievable by playing with your fretting finger ON the fret instead of behind it. There is a lot of nuance and thump in there if you play with that technique. The lesson i picked it up from was one of Mo's.

I let my big Tacoma ABG go mainly because my band is too loud to really use it live -- it feeds back at the levels I needed. I enjoyed it around the house for sure. But overall, I wasn't finding DB tones in it and didn't want to try to hard. But on any bass, the trick is in using a strong pluck and having some muting techniques on hand.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Yup. The muting, and not picking too close to the bridge, is your best bet, but it's a long way from DB.

 

[Standalone]

Oh, and an E string that is a little out can be remedied by tuning it just slightly low which gives you room to bend it into tune at any particular fret -- if all else fails.

I have a few basses that aren't set up just right or have quirks and this seems to work as a last resort short of getting out the wrenches and screwdriver. My ear is good at doing that, though.

Also, this thread is best placed in the Technique subform, I think.

 

[KeepItMoving]

I’m engaged in similar exploration; I’ve found that, along the lines of what @buldog5151bass says, plucking very high up, like around where the neck and body meet, can help get a smooth, warm kind of tone.

Also, using the sides of the plucking fingers rather than the tips seems to move things in the DB direction - less attack and a little more “bloom.”

Best of luck with your endeavors, and I’ll be interested to see what others have to say.

 

[Jefenator]

My ABG with frets & phosphor-bronze roundwound strings sounds nothing like a double bass - and yet it is my first choice to substitute when a stage only has room for guitars.
I think it has more to do with acoustic vibe & presence than trying to fool someone in a blindfold.

 

[Wasnex]

I'd appreciate any tips for getting DB-ish sounds from an ABG (apart from 'Buy a DB'). I have an old 32" Warwick Alien Standard 4 string fretted, with a 3 ply top. Two days ago ago I put on a set of 45-105 Warwick Black nylon tapewound bronze strings. These are non magnetic pickup specific ABG strings with short sustain, little treble and an almost muffled short sustain bass heavy 'thump' on the lower strings. The blurb says 'Double bass sound with precise intonation'. I'll be happy if they just go somewhere towards DB sound, and I'm not sure I've achieved the precise intonation bit on the low E yet. I suspect it might be the setup that's responsible, although I'm not yet used listening to the low overtones the low E string produces.

This bass was previously set up for pressurewound bronzes, with low action and very little neck relief. When I first put the current strings on, it seemed like the low E wasn't quite in tune up the neck. I increased the relief a bit by winding off the truss rod half a turn - it rattles less on the low E and seems to be a bit more in tune. Do you think it might benefit from a higher action, and any other tips please?

I think you have done what you can. Whether the bass will intonate properly with specific E string I can't say. Higher action does give you a thumpier tone with less sustain. But you may reach a point where the other strings go out of tune before the E string is in tune. IMHO if the E string intonates up to the 5th or 6th fret, I would call it good. Playing upright high on the fat strings is not something that most players do on a frequent basses.

Where you pluck and how you shape the notes is another factor. With just a regular slab bass guitar and normal strings, you can get more of an upright sound by using palm muting and plucking with your thumb. I find I don't have much endurance with the technique.

You could also experiment with under string mutes if the sustain is too long.

 

[Eilif]

Have you tried putting a form mute under the strings by the bridge?

That and plucking near the bridge with the fleshiest parts of your fingers and thumb would be my other suggestions.

Generally though, I don't look to an ABG for upright sounds. They usually have a tone all their own -especially in ensemble with acoustic guitars- that really is a Bass Acoustic Guitar. Much the same way a Doublebass tone is the of a Bass Violin.

 

[Lance Bunyon]

A fretted bass is never really gonna sound like a fretless bass. That being said, Michael Fournelle seems to have figured the whole thing out:

 

[aprod]

They are completely different instruments. It is a fool’s errand. Would anyone consider trying to get a DB to sound like an ABG? I think not.

 

[Plain Old Barry]

I've actually gotten cool sounds with a Boss defretter / acoustic bass effect in my GT-1B.

Will I say it sounds exactly like an upright? Not for a minute. Did it make people happy? Way beyond what it cost me.

Give it a listen through a good amp.

 

[MattZilla]

Half of the sound of a DB is the stage itself to which the DB is physically coupled via the endpin.

Ampeg put a bunch of effort into approximating that sound for rooms without a decent stage to act as part of the soundboard apparatus for a DB’s function back in the late 40s to 50s and moved to trying real hard to get there without feedback from a hollowbody instrument by jumping to making their own solidbodies in the 60s to pair with their amps which they voiced to mimic a good DB on a good stage in a good room in any room.

Maybe try an Ampeg Scroll Bass or Devil Bass with an original Blue Check B15N?

There’s someone here who I think makes replica Scroll Basses and posts them in the Luthier’s Corner end of TB, and there’s definitely a couple B15N preamp makers out there.

 

[Jeremy Darrow]

A UBass with flat wound strings will get you pretty close if you plug it in.

 

[Ed Goode]

An ABG with frets will never sound like a DB, no matter what you do to it. If you want to emulate a DB sound it’s worth your while to listen to DB players and try to effect their playing style (accents, walking “patterns”, etc). I’m a lifelong DB player currently working in an active jazz trio using a fretless ABG. Does it sound like a DB? Heck, no, but I do. Playing style/technique will win out over gear any day of the week …

 

[jd56hawk]

I'd appreciate any tips for getting DB-ish sounds from an ABG (apart from 'Buy a DB'). I have an old 32" Warwick Alien Standard 4 string fretted, with a 3 ply top. Two days ago ago I put on a set of 45-105 Warwick Black nylon tapewound bronze strings. These are non magnetic pickup specific ABG strings with short sustain, little treble and an almost muffled short sustain bass heavy 'thump' on the lower strings. The blurb says 'Double bass sound with precise intonation'. I'll be happy if they just go somewhere towards DB sound, and I'm not sure I've achieved the precise intonation bit on the low E yet. I suspect it might be the setup that's responsible, although I'm not yet used listening to the low overtones the low E string produces.

This bass was previously set up for pressurewound bronzes, with low action and very little neck relief. When I first put the current strings on, it seemed like the low E wasn't quite in tune up the neck. I increased the relief a bit by winding off the truss rod half a turn - it rattles less on the low E and seems to be a bit more in tune. Do you think it might benefit from a higher action, and any other tips please?

I'm using D'Addario black tapewounds a foam mute, and a rubber pick.

 

[J Wilson]

The only thing you can do is to suggest a DB by a) approximating a similar tone via the onboard piezo/pre and at the amp, and b) playing your parts the way a DB player would.

This goes back to the early days of synths playing horn or string charts only a keyboard could play or the obvious drum machine as the part you're hearing would require a drummer with four arms and three legs: A big part of any other instrument playing to 'stand in' for another instrument is to play the part(s) authentically to the original instrument.

 

[Standalone]

I feel like we don’t see enough fretless ABG’s out there.

 

[micguy]

The string on a musical instrument loses energy at both ends - how it loses energy depends on the nature of those 2 ends. If one end is on a relatively thin plate (the top of an acoustic instrument) it definitely changes that end condition - energy is lost to the top rather quickly, so there is less sustain - in the case of an upright and an acoustic bass, they both have some of that kind of thing going on, though the plates are quite different - they'll never really be the same.

And then there is the other end of the string. A fretted end condition is very different from what happens on a fretless instrument - the string "buzzes" against the fingerboard on a fretless, which generates harmonics after the note is struck - the mwah we (or at least many of us) love. A fretted end condition starts out with a lot of harmonics, but loses them over time - it's a completely different thing going on. The timbre of a fretted and fretless instrument are just different.

 

[Pyrrho Epoche]

I put a magic eraser, cut in half under the strings down by the bridge, turn the volume/sustain down and pizz harder.

 

[Wasnex]

I put a magic eraser, cut in half under the strings down by the bridge, turn the volume/sustain down and pizz harder.

You do know those things are extremally abrasive right? Hopefully you are putting something between the Magic eraser and the top of the bass...Otherwise, the Magic Eraser will eat through the finish.