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Generator rant
- Thread starter Bullitt5135
- Start date
Absolutely. I'm also reaching out to a couple of local band who might be wiling to take the gig.
Good, im glad you you are opting out of this gig. Might be totally fine with no problems at all, however, I find that so many bands/musicians take whatever is offered even against their own best judgement.
Oh you! He means a portable generator, non-grid power.
Honda make a variety of generators.
They need to provide the exact model number and specs, such as THD in output sine waves.
But, really, your contract said "mains power only" and they don't have the capability to provide it. I say either they provide all PA, backline, and electronic instruiments (keyboards, for example, which could certainly be damaged by poor power quality), or you don't play.
I have lined up a suitable generator (that I trust) and a trailer to haul it. I'd rather not even bother, but me being the nice guy I am, I do not want to leave this client hanging if I can help it. I am also checking with a couple of local bands to see if they want to take the gig off my hands. I will offer the client a choice. The upside to this gig is that the client organizes a number of large events like this every year. Not all would require generator power. I've been told by more than one person that he's a really good guy, albeit a bit cavalier in the power requirement department.
Something no one has mentioned yet.
Running on multiple small generators is not good practice for audio. No matter the quality of the generators. Unless they are all cycle synced and sharing a common grounding plane, which most likely won’t happen on a gig like this, don’t do it.
Promoters even with the best intentions are usually not all that savvy on the tech side of things.
To elaborate on the why for anyone who does not know why, here you go.
Having multiple power sources on different cycles will wreak havoc on analog electronics and how in tune they are with each other. Having multiple grounding planes leads to all sorts of hums and buzzes. It is general practice to have all audio equipment (foh, monitors, and backline) on the same ground, and when possible the ground is isolated from lighting, motors, and anything that isn’t audio. This practice reduces the chances of non audio equipment inducing noise into the audio systems.
I have a battery backup.. it say me.. so I just take a battery operated preamp play direct into the PA..
Again...................go direct and make sure to get a monitor. I'm not bringing my amp for any generator gigs.
I agree with you on this.
The chances are the Honda Generators would not be in sync. Would not be acceptable in the Uk if there was a possibility of phase to phase electric shock.
When I was site manager for a large outdoor event. All the power arrangements were supervised and signed off by a qualified electrician.
This was a requirement for the public liability insurance
Sounds like this place should host "acoustic only" type gigs.
T$
T$
My previous band did a gig on a beach ( shuttled the equipment over on boats). They had 3 generators, we used 2. I brought my most expendable amp just in case. We had 0 problems.
There’s no issue with generators provided they are appropriate and used correctly.
I was involved in an event a couple of weeks ago. The generators were borrowed from a company which does outside broadcasting for Sky amongst others and like yourself we had no problems
Someone else made a point but it bears repeating - you must sync the multiple generators. I know that for Honda inverter generators (I have one) a relatively inexpensive accessory cable is available that allows this - I don't know the details, except for a general recollection that the process is pretty simple and straightforward once you have the special cable.
Of course, there's a whole set of questions about properly grounding the generators and your power. As someone noted, you can't risk having fugitive voltages ground-to-ground, which is a real possibility in a hinky slapped-together setup like this. Are they going to drive a great big copper rod into the earth and ground all the generators to it with ground straps of sufficient size? (Is this even the correct way to do it?) Or is it just another bunch of "trust us, it'll be OK, it'll all be fun and games till someone gets a powerful electric shock"?
Then there's power distribution from the generator, so as not to incur excessive voltage drops (for example, five extension cords in series will have much greater voltage drop than one of greater length, just due the voltage drops at the connectors). No, a bunch of power strips from Staples is almost certainly NOT the right way to do it.
And let's talk about power cables for a second. How close to the stage are we talking? There was mention of 50 feet up above. A 2000W output at 110 Volts will be something like 19A. A power cable of sufficient size to carry nearly 20A for 50 feet with no more than 10% voltage drop (general industrial standard) is a BIG sonofagun. Do NOT go to Home Depot and buy some 14 ga extension cords! You need something more like an RV power cord - 5/8 to 3/4" diameter. Expensive. If there are two generators synchronized, you'll need at least two such cords. Then you probably ought to have each one terminated with a four- or six- outlet receptacle box. I just took a gander - a 30A rated, 50 foot RV cord is 10 gauge, costs $80; but the connector on the end isn't the NEMA 15 connector you've got on all your ordinary equipment, so adapters are required. Or you cut off the female end and attach a multi-receptacle box as I just described. All those connections need to be properly made as well. You don't want any slightly hinky connections that'll have high resistance and get hot under large current draws. And all of this sounds slightly dubious to me; I suspect there are some codes not being taken into consideration.
Now of course there ARE correct ways to do this; there are companies who are more than capable (they'll have licensed electricians on staff, maybe not at each installation, but they'll have set up the correct procedures to be followed); and I would suggest you don't play this gig unless someone like that is engaged to set up the generator power. There are just so many ways for things to go wrong.
"Oh, we did this and didn't have any problems" is not sufficient technical guidance. People do stuff that's not to code all the time, and almost always there's no problem; but when there is a problem it can get real exciting fast.
Of course, there's a whole set of questions about properly grounding the generators and your power. As someone noted, you can't risk having fugitive voltages ground-to-ground, which is a real possibility in a hinky slapped-together setup like this. Are they going to drive a great big copper rod into the earth and ground all the generators to it with ground straps of sufficient size? (Is this even the correct way to do it?) Or is it just another bunch of "trust us, it'll be OK, it'll all be fun and games till someone gets a powerful electric shock"?
Then there's power distribution from the generator, so as not to incur excessive voltage drops (for example, five extension cords in series will have much greater voltage drop than one of greater length, just due the voltage drops at the connectors). No, a bunch of power strips from Staples is almost certainly NOT the right way to do it.
And let's talk about power cables for a second. How close to the stage are we talking? There was mention of 50 feet up above. A 2000W output at 110 Volts will be something like 19A. A power cable of sufficient size to carry nearly 20A for 50 feet with no more than 10% voltage drop (general industrial standard) is a BIG sonofagun. Do NOT go to Home Depot and buy some 14 ga extension cords! You need something more like an RV power cord - 5/8 to 3/4" diameter. Expensive. If there are two generators synchronized, you'll need at least two such cords. Then you probably ought to have each one terminated with a four- or six- outlet receptacle box. I just took a gander - a 30A rated, 50 foot RV cord is 10 gauge, costs $80; but the connector on the end isn't the NEMA 15 connector you've got on all your ordinary equipment, so adapters are required. Or you cut off the female end and attach a multi-receptacle box as I just described. All those connections need to be properly made as well. You don't want any slightly hinky connections that'll have high resistance and get hot under large current draws. And all of this sounds slightly dubious to me; I suspect there are some codes not being taken into consideration.
Now of course there ARE correct ways to do this; there are companies who are more than capable (they'll have licensed electricians on staff, maybe not at each installation, but they'll have set up the correct procedures to be followed); and I would suggest you don't play this gig unless someone like that is engaged to set up the generator power. There are just so many ways for things to go wrong.
"Oh, we did this and didn't have any problems" is not sufficient technical guidance. People do stuff that's not to code all the time, and almost always there's no problem; but when there is a problem it can get real exciting fast.
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I have an old Monster ups.. so if some thing goes boom it allow me to power down.. when you have $1000+ equipment.. better safe than sorry.. also a something with quick change fuses between between you and your gear.. the rig I'd take to this.. is a just my tuner a and Behringer sans amp clone.. a battery operated peavey amp, 2 Battery charging fan and a solar panel.. plug the amp in the batter operated fan.. and the solar panel into the fan.. that's a back up on your backup.. lol I'd do that for camping.. and don't forget the sun block.. the amp stand.. and extra cables.. a chair-stool.. and a canopy! if you have a solar powered generator you trust that helps too.. I would not trust others to supply the power.. without got filtering.. plus if you are a gigging musician you can write the equipment.. food for thought..
Full disclosure, lived in Alaska now since 2003, played and teched at some pretty obscure location, on only a couple small generators.
Places that are literally miles down an unpaved road, way in the woods.
Small bluegrass and jam festivals.
Not unusual to set up, campout, cook over campfire, and bath in a stream, because no motels for miles.
But… I never brought good electric gear to them.
Bluegrass Festival kit was, double bass, drum rug and a DI.
Jam Festival kit was a Squier Jazz Bass, DI, and a 100 watt Peavy Combo.
Places that are literally miles down an unpaved road, way in the woods.
Small bluegrass and jam festivals.
Not unusual to set up, campout, cook over campfire, and bath in a stream, because no motels for miles.
But… I never brought good electric gear to them.
Bluegrass Festival kit was, double bass, drum rug and a DI.
Jam Festival kit was a Squier Jazz Bass, DI, and a 100 watt Peavy Combo.
Ingersoll Rand. They can rent those instead. Honda's are OK for family reunion RV camping with a small band.
