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Genz Benz Sanity Check

Jeff_K

Jeff_K

Dec 10, 2010
83
5
Westbrook, CT
#1
Hi All,

Before I pull the trigger on a major purchase I wanted to make sure I've explored all my options.

I have a pair of 4ohm Avatars (B210 Neo's) that I used to power with a SansAmp/Crown pre/power amp setup. I ran that for 2 years or so, but I limited my self to only being able to use the rack-mounted rig for both cabs at the same time, and also the rack was pretty damn heavy. This rig was capable of ~1100 watts or so. Usually overkill for most gigs.

Because of this, I went out and got a smaller rig - an Ampeg PF-500 with the PF115HLF and the PF115LF. This gave me some versatility in being able to use 1 or 2 cabs (the Ampeg cabs are 8ohms), but I could use only one of the Avatar cabs at a time.

After doing some research, I learned that the ShuttleMax 12.2 from Genz Benz offers a WHOLE LOT of speaker configurations due to its dual amp design. I can run a single 8ohm cab, single 4ohm cab, two 8ohm cabs, two 4ohm cabs, a single 8ohm and single 4ohm, and if I wanted to get silly I could even run two 8ohms and a single 4ohm.

So after all that, I guess my question(s) are this:

1. Is the Genz Benz a reliable amp? My PF-500 fried recently and took over 2 months to get repaired.

2. Is there any other manufacturer that has the same versatility with the same (or near the same) power output as the 12.2?

3. Who can tell me what kind of tone I'll get from the 12.2? I am a real fan of the tone I get from my PF-500. I wasn't as much a fan I got from the SansAmp, but it still sounded decent.

4. Anything I forgot to address?

Thanks everyone. I love TB and the forums and look forward to reading your responses!

Jeff
 
#2
first of all GB amps are very reliable with great customer service too.
the shuttlemax 12.2 (12.0 in my case) is two separate 600 watt into 4 ohms power sections. So yes multiple cab config's. can be done.
very clean hifi type rig. Eq sections are extremely versatile. top end is really sweet and quite controllable. you will want to turn your tweeters up in your cabs. bottom end is not real deep but is quite tight and articulate. very usable when boosted. separate sweeps for low mids and high mids. It's surely a "dial it in" type rig but once you are there --very nice indeed.
hard to go wrong with this rig unless tube/big iron is your thing. you should try one first. It's a nice rig but it is quite different from the ampeg sound. make sure it's your thing before purchasing.
 
#3
I had a 12.2. Too sterile sounding for me. I've since gone to Aguilar (DB359 and TH500). The Aggie stuff just gives me some a level of presence that (IMHO) the 12.2 lacked. The 12.2 is a very good HiFi-sounding piece of equipment, and (arguably) more tweakable with regards to my Aggie stuff, but I like the Earthy, raw, organic sounding Aggie. You're not going to get Ampeg drive/dirt out of the 12.2; at least I never did with the thing cranked through a Berg HD410 and HD210.
 
#5
Based on what you said you liked tonally I think you would absolutely not like the Shuttlemax. You would like the Streamliner but it doesnt have all that flexability.

The Shuttlemax is very hifi and modern sounding.

If Fender shuts down Genz Benz Im not sure what effect that would have on customer service.

The Ampeg SVT-4 pro has dual power amps. Im sure there are other companies I just cant think of any.
 
#8
Thanks guys.

I think at this time I am going to refrain from purchasing anything G-B. The Fender "re-org" has me a bit nervous, and I'd hate to drop ~$1K on something that may very well be obsolete in a month or two.

My idea is this. A second PF500 (since I like the tone so much), and use it two different ways:

1. As a backup to my current PF500 (I have had to have it repaired).
2. As a power amp to drive my second 4ohm cab when needed/as the mood strikes me.

I'm pretty sure I can "preamp out" of the one my bass is plugged into and "power amp in" to the second.

I know this means carrying 2 amps, but it won't be all the time. Only for when I want to use my 4ohm cabs which isn't that often.
 
#9
How bout adding a GK MB head to the mix. You need a reliable backup, well there ya go... And it's nice to have flavors on hand. GK plays real well with Avatar too. 700 RB II, 1001 Rb II, MB2-500 (A07), MB500. Any of those would do nicely.

I used to run 2 4 ohm Bag End 2x10's in series using a box I built off a 1001 RB II. That gave me 480 into 8 ohms which was never not enough... 3 jacks, 1 extra cable, a plastic electrical utility box and done... Worked great though I did take some band mate abuse about getting a sponsored by Home Depot sticker for my rig...
 
#10
1. Yes
2. Puma 1000
3. Flexible EQ. Probably be able to get something close to the Ampeg. IMHO a big step up in tone from the Sansamp.
4. Nothing I can thing of.

Been running a 12.2 for around a year now. At first I was using it with a Avatar TB153 and as well as a pair B210 Neo's and now I'm using it with a Berg HD212 and 112.

Great sounding head, not overly modern to me. Some people describe it as modern and bright but I used a Demeter VTBP-201(S) for years and the 12.2 isn't anywhere near as bright as that. The eq is flexible enough to do a nice crisp modern tone or a nice round tone.....not necessarily a uber round girthy tube tone but round and tight (low mid at around 150-120hz)

I think I understand what echoSE7EN is staying about sterile, though I wouldn't describe it quite that way but is does have a dry tone quality to it. I'm finding I can roll back the bass a notch or two and turn the Low boost on about 9 to 11 o'clock and it adds some presence and a bit of lushness to the tone. My Demeter was more lush and shimmery however in the mix the Shuttlemax is amazing.... it sounds extremely good on it own but really holds it together and excels in the mix.

For the most part I think it lets the instruments tone come thru, the lows stay nice and tight but can get big is you boost, I'm starting to really enjoy the FET channel as well and learning to use the low boost (which is also adjust the HPF..... very interesting). Form factor is great especially if your running to 4ohm / 8ohm cab combos and it's really light. I love the built in HPF that Genz does, some of my old blown speakers probably wish I would have bought this amp sooner! I play rock, disco, motown and country and it works great for all of it with the very flexible EQ.
 
#11
Tone will always be subjective, but I personally agree with the poster that found the ShuttleMax a bit sterile compared to other amps.I much preferred the Streamliner matched side by side with my old ShuttleMax 9.2. The Streamlines had a sweet musical character that I didn't hear in the Shuttle and I added an EQ to my pedalboard and I can get plenty modern for my needs .But the Shuttle is more tweakable if you need that.And Genz customer service is outstanding.

And another vote that you try the GK and Aguilar-Botha great amps and top customer service as well.
 
#12
If you were happy with the SansAmp preamp it's never been easier to put a very lightweight rack together. I have several class D heads (GB Shuttle 9.0, Markbass LMII, Kustom KXB500, Acoustic Image Clarus 2R S4), they all work great and none of them sound the least bit sterile. They do sound accurate and I understand some folks don't want that.

What I've been using lately is far more flexible than any of those heads. I have a Crown Drivecore XLS 1000 amp coupled with a very lightweight preamp, in this case a Mike Pope MPP1. I'm using an Odyssey lightweight rackbag. I prefer it because the bag is removable from the rack... a feature most reviewers seem to ignore. When I get to a gig I unzip the back, stand the rack on end and slide the cover off. One cord for power, one or two cables for cabs and it's set. Slide the cover back on when the gig is down, pop the cables in and go.

At around 8 lb. the amp can do down to 2 ohms per side and 4 ohms bridged... for under $300 brand new. Around $200 used. My amp AND preamp weight less than my Yamaha preamp ALONE. The whole setup is surprisingly light. Lighter than the laptop bag I carry two class D amps in.

Something to consider if you like your preamp. I have a few preamps and it sounds great with all of them. Makes something like the old school Ashley SC40 I just picked up very viable again. I even cleaned up an old Peavey Pro bass 1000 and that sounded great. Both are lightweight, the only issue I have with my Yamaha's.
 
#14
This thread reads like Genz only produces one amp?..

Sure if you want a "have enough knobs to do everything you ever wanted" the shuttle max is it, but the Streamliner is one powerful, musical sounding amp..which to many folks listening, can get close enough to an SVT sound to NOT want to carry the extra 70lbs... the word sterile does not apply at all.

Fender owns Genz Benz, and IMO the future of support for Genz benz products is as secure as it gets...new products? who knows.. same people designing new products under different brand? who knows.. want a great deal on genz?.. buy now.
 
#15
Jeff_K said:
Thanks guys.

I think at this time I am going to refrain from purchasing anything G-B. The Fender "re-org" has me a bit nervous, and I'd hate to drop ~$1K on something that may very well be obsolete in a month or two.

My idea is this. A second PF500 (since I like the tone so much), and use it two different ways:

1. As a backup to my current PF500 (I have had to have it repaired).
2. As a power amp to drive my second 4ohm cab when needed/as the mood strikes me.

I'm pretty sure I can "preamp out" of the one my bass is plugged into and "power amp in" to the second.

I know this means carrying 2 amps, but it won't be all the time. Only for when I want to use my 4ohm cabs which isn't that often.
Click to expand...

I pulled the trigger on a second PF500. I do believe this is the best option for me right now.

I do appreciate all the input I got, and I may yet go with G-B in future.

Jeff
 
#16
mystic38 said:
This thread reads like Genz only produces one amp?..

Sure if you want a "have enough knobs to do everything you ever wanted" the shuttle max is it, but the Streamliner is one powerful, musical sounding amp..which to many folks listening, can get close enough to an SVT sound to NOT want to carry the extra 70lbs... the word sterile does not apply at all.

Fender owns Genz Benz, and IMO the future of support for Genz benz products is as secure as it gets...new products? who knows.. same people designing new products under different brand? who knows.. want a great deal on genz?.. buy now.
Click to expand...

Running two 4 ohms cabs was the sticking point. Is there a Streamliner that'll do that?
 
#17
Jeff_K said:
Hi All,

Before I pull the trigger on a major purchase I wanted to make sure I've explored all my options.

I have a pair of 4ohm Avatars (B210 Neo's) that I used to power with a SansAmp/Crown pre/power amp setup. I ran that for 2 years or so, but I limited my self to only being able to use the rack-mounted rig for both cabs at the same time, and also the rack was pretty damn heavy. This rig was capable of ~1100 watts or so. Usually overkill for most gigs.
Click to expand...

If you liked the sound of the SansAmp pre-amp, have you considered getting a different power amp to run with it ? There are some very light-weight class D amps that can be used down to 2 ohms per channel and could sound very good with that pre-amp.
 
#18
Vince Klortho said:
If you liked the sound of the SansAmp pre-amp, have you considered getting a different power amp to run with it ? There are some very light-weight class D amps that can be used down to 2 ohms per channel and could sound very good with that pre-amp.
Click to expand...

I was using a Crown XLS 1500 which is a lightweight class D. But after lugging a 6U "suitcase" around for a while (add up the amp, preamp, tuner, compressor, power strip and rack and it gets heavy fast), I wanted to get something that would do the same thing at a fraction of the weight.

At least that was my thought process.
 
#19
Jeff_K said:
I was using a Crown XLS 1500 which is a lightweight class D. But after lugging a 6U "suitcase" around for a while (add up the amp, preamp, tuner, compressor, power strip and rack and it gets heavy fast), I wanted to get something that would do the same thing at a fraction of the weight.

At least that was my thought process.
Click to expand...

No doubt. What did you replace all of that with, meaning tuner, compressor and whatever else?

I use a 3U rackbag, no power strip, no compressor, no tuner. Clip-on tuner. Rarely take effects out. My entire rig with the rack is less than 60 lb. including the dolly. Plenty of space for whatever cabling I need too. Really makes a lightweight rack competitive with the other amplification I'm using for the first time while being far more flexible.

The friend I borrowed the Pope from had it in a really large 3U X style hard rack case. To carry 10 lb. worth of gear. Definitely well-protected. Here's my big rig...

this rack:
PopeSlapGCrownIMG_20130321_233512_zps151045b2.jpg


on top of this 2-12 cab ( I was testing out several of my preamps):
PreampsMarch2013IMG_20130315_153209_zpsa420d239.jpg
 
#20
Too funny Brad Johnson- I also run a Yamaha PB1 into a Crown into a 15 (mine's a Bag End). Sounds thick as a brick, who needs tubes. Cheers to our ancient preamps!
Just picked up a Shuttlemax 12.2 at an absurdly low price, hence my snooping around this old thread, so I guess I can let one tube into the mix :) Hope it works out for me and the Genz is reliable, but I'll always have the old Yamaha and Crown to fall back on, good stuff.
 

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