Genz Benz shuttle 6.0 Wattage question

[Jumamoro]

Hi,

Could somebody help me?

My new shuttle 6.0 has just arrived, but I am afraid to use it with my bergantino cab, because its wattage is 300 at 8 ohms and the shuttle is slightly higher 375 watts at 8 ohms.

Would I blow it if I do that?

Thanks

 

[kaiser_sosea]

you should be just fine, just use your ears, you will be able to hear when/if the driver is being stressed, in which case back the volume down... If i had to guess i'd say it's very unlikely that you'd have the volume set that high unless playing with a full band and no PA..

 

[bamabass]

you'll be fine. Use common sense....then turn it up and play.

 

[bassmodder]

I have a 300W 12" that I use for the small gigs and practice. One time I laid everything that shuttle had into that cab and it never even began to distort. Perhaps some but not what I was expecting.

Never hurt the speaker or the amp. Usually I don't drive things like that, but that or not be heard at all. That bar really sucked up sound.

 

[fishtx]

This is not scientific, so I will let the experts jump in and correct this if I'm way off base...but I had an old bass player tell me a long time ago when I was a kid, what he called the "1 and 1/2 rule"...basically, you are good to use 1 and 1/2 times the power rating of your cabs...so if your amp is rated at...lets say 450 watts @ 8 ohms...you are cool with a cab rated at 300 watts (8 ohms)...or if your amp is 1500 watts at 4 ohms, use a 1000 watt 4 ohm cab. I have used this as a basic rule of thumb and have never had any problems....

If any of you experts could confirm or correct this assumptive rule I've been using for 30 years, I would greatly appreciate it...LOL...

Bill Fitz or agedhorse...someone???...

 

[agedhorse]

It depends entirely how the cabinet is rated. I do not know the specific details aboutthe cabinet you have, but if the 300 watt rating is the "RMS" rating (more or less the thermal capacity of the driver along with the average mechanical capacity) you should be just fine.

Now for a little more in depth comments (indulge my tech-speak just a little bit... )

A speaker's power handling capability depends on both thermal and mechanical limits of the driver(s). The thermal capacity is pretty easy to measure and extrapolate, and say a steady state 300 watt thermal capacity would be very comfortable with a 600 watt or higher amp that was NOT driven into clipping or limiting. This is because the bass guitar signal is not steady state and the peak to average ratio of the bass guitar signal is such that the peaks are typically around 6dB (at least) greater than the average. So, (in theory) a 1200 watt RMS rated amp driven by a (typical) bass guitar will result in a 300 watt (Pmax/2) average thermal load to the speaker.

Now, here's where the "in theory" part does not translate well into practice. It's a pretty optimistic assumption that the speaker's mechanical structure will handle 2X or 4X the thermal power rating. It used to be that the 2X rule of thumb was reasonable, but the power levels were much lower and the speaker ratings much more conservative than today. Also, the mechanical rating varies a LOT with frequency, so if frequencies below the cabinet's tuning are allowed to pass, you enter into a reigon of the driver's mechanical rating that (may) fall off pretty darn quick. In fact, a 300 watt RMS rated driver may have only a 150 watt or lower mechanical rating at say 25Hz. Exceeding the mechanical limits of the driver just causes prematutre failure of the suspension components.

Adding a compresor or limiter seems to be the "easy" fix. Well it certainly helps with mechanical issues but also causes a shift in the peak to average ratio of your signal (that's exactly what these dynamics control devices do) and now you have to reconsider the thermal limitations again.

Regarding the "peak" ratings of speakers, they are IMO a bunk spec, misleading in that the peak power value of a signal is exactly double that of an equiv. "RMS" value. It's purely a mathe expression, just another way of saying exactly the same thing. 300 watts "RMS" is exactly 600 watts "peak".

Now for the good news... your Shuttle amp has two features that help preserve your speakers under high power operation. There is a steep high pass filter (used almost exclusively in the pro audio world) that limits the potential for mechanical speaker damage, as well as a soft clip/limiter that emulates how a tube amp overdrives. With a speaker rated at 300 watts "RMS" I would not expect any problems, even driven into moderate limiting.

Hope this helps.

 

[bassmodder]

I was going to add that the shuttle clips like no other amp (besides tube) that I have. It never farts my cabs.

 

[tolson36]

agree--it's a great musical limiter--never played through a better one..

Agedhorse "steep high pass filter (used almost exclusively in the pro audio world)" got any more on this. What is the frequency of that filter?
thanks

 

[agedhorse]

Depends on the model and which function is engaged. The 6.0 is roughly 32ish Hz, but this shifts a little depending on the LF extend function since there's more going on than meets the (casual) eye. The filter slopes are 4th order or greater and again depending on the functions selected are compound slopes and breakpoints.

This is all pretty much standard stuff in the high end pro audio world, that's where I spent much of my career. Not at all common in the bass guitar world, funny though since most bass guitar signals pass through pro audio subs.

 

[hasbeen]

and there's extra special, top secret Ninja stuff that Andy puts in there too....which he can't talk about.

 

[RPIcka]

can you run the shuttle with no speakers hooked up to it?

 

[hasbeen]

can you run the shuttle with no speakers hooked up to it?

yup. One of the neat applications of it is to use it as a headphone amp or a pre/D.I.

 

[bassnharp]

Is anybody using Avatar B212 or B210 NEO's (they are rated 500 watts) with the GB 6.0? I am considering this set-up? I was considering starting with the B210 and adding the B212 later.

Maybe a stupid question but I'm new to separate amp/cab setups, how would these be "wired". Meaning the GB 6.0 has two speaker outputs, would a wire go to each cabinet. The Avatars are ordered either 4 or 8 ohm. I read something about 2 8 ohms make a 4 ohm. Would I get both in 4 ohm or both in 8 ohm?

 

[kaiser_sosea]

with the shuttle 6.0 you would want two 8 ohm cab creating a total impendance of 4 ohms that the shuttle would see. This is good and the shuttle is a 4 ohm minimum amp. you could run one cable from each of the speakon out from the head to each cab. if you wanted to daisy chain you would have to run one cable from the shuttle to a cab and then another cable from the first cab to the second cab. either will give you the same results

 

[bassnharp]

Thanks for the answer kaiser!

 

[CapnSev]

can you run the shuttle with no speakers hooked up to it?

You can run any solid-state amp without a cab hooked up.

 

[jokerjkny]

should be fine, but like others mentioned, if your cab begins to fart out, its time to rethink your EQ, back off the lows, and maybe also time to add another cab for that bigger, louder sound.