I play German primarily, and I'm considering buying an Eggpin for the sake of exploration. I now generally play standing with the bass vertical like Karr. I do not generally feel the weight on my thumb. In fact, I rather like the stance because I feel like I can use the weight of the bass to assist my fingers. My bass is rather large and the end pin only extends approximately 4 inches. Has anyone that plays German switched to a Laborie/Egg/bent pin even though they felt comfortable with the vertical stance? I've read quite a few posts where people who never quite felt at home with the vertical stance switched, but have any of you who thought the vertical stance was just fine been surprised by how much you liked the Laborie/Egg/bent pin? Or have any of you who thought the vertical stance was just fine tried the Eggpin and left underwhelmed with $250 down the drain?
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Double Bass German: Eggpin vs. straight pin w/ Karr stance
- Thread starter mheintz
- Start date
Hmmm.. If you bass sits that low, I don't know if either the Laborie endpin or the eggpin will help you any. I have had an Eggpin on my bass for about 10 years now and I really like it a lot, it gives me a lot of angle options for the bass. (I pretty much stick with the 45 degree thing though.Very similar to the laborie, except you don't have to chop a hole in your bass to install it. (but that's a subject of another hotly debated thread)
I don't either, and the "Karr stance" works great to resolve that particular issue. The eggpin works great to solve this problem too, which I like very much. I use the eggpin, but when I was learning to play my teacher taught me to stand similarly to Gary Karr.
If I had to use a straight endpin, I'd go back to doing it like Gary Karr. I prefer the angeld endpin approach, though, since I don't need to move my body anywhere near as much to move over the fingerboard.
Thank you for the replies.
That's interesting. Can you elaborate? Are you talking about thumb position or just general left-hand access?
I did a gig on a bass with a bent pin and hated it. It made tp easier and the lower positions an ordeal.
If you have gut, you can get a good balance with a straight pin. If you are phyiscally less suited to play bass than Mingus and I, then a bent pin/egg pin might help get a good balance.
If you have gut, you can get a good balance with a straight pin. If you are phyiscally less suited to play bass than Mingus and I, then a bent pin/egg pin might help get a good balance.
- Jan 24, 2002
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- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
I switched to a Laborie pin this summer after sitting with a straight pin for most of my bass-playing life.
It's not an immediately satisfactory thing. Don't expect it to be. Yes, there are a couple things that make it immediately worthwhile. Chief among them for me were improved tone quality and sound production, which will not happen with the heavy, metal eggpin. It took me about a month and a half before I felt comfortable enough standing with the Laborie pin that I could play real music on it. It's been about five months now, and I'm starting to feel OK with it. I may not ever get to the point where I can stand in orchestra, but I love playing solos standing.
Just find what works for you. An eggpin is a good thing to experiment with, but it can only dampen your sound. If you like angled pins, getting a Laborie is inexpensive and reversible. Besides, would you really pay less for an instrument that came pre-drilled?
It's not an immediately satisfactory thing. Don't expect it to be. Yes, there are a couple things that make it immediately worthwhile. Chief among them for me were improved tone quality and sound production, which will not happen with the heavy, metal eggpin. It took me about a month and a half before I felt comfortable enough standing with the Laborie pin that I could play real music on it. It's been about five months now, and I'm starting to feel OK with it. I may not ever get to the point where I can stand in orchestra, but I love playing solos standing.
Just find what works for you. An eggpin is a good thing to experiment with, but it can only dampen your sound. If you like angled pins, getting a Laborie is inexpensive and reversible. Besides, would you really pay less for an instrument that came pre-drilled?
If you want to explore the bent endpin, instead of sinking all that money into the eggpin, you can have your choice of two styles of endpins, one curved, one actually bent for $25 plus shipping per endpin. They are available from Invalid Link Removed , and George Vance will personally get one made to your specificaions to fit you and your bass. You just need to do some quick measurements and it will be shipped within days via priority mail.
I was using the Laborie endpin, got a new bass, and decided to go with this endpin. Am completely satisfied with it, although I still get comments from people who try my bass. For them, I have to say that it takes a while to get used to the change in position, but it is working for me using German bow.
I was using the Laborie endpin, got a new bass, and decided to go with this endpin. Am completely satisfied with it, although I still get comments from people who try my bass. For them, I have to say that it takes a while to get used to the change in position, but it is working for me using German bow.
Great advice, thank you. No instant gratification.
That's definitely a good option. My concern is that it would only get me 70% of the feeling of the Laborie/Eggpin and I wouldn't really get a feeling for it. I also worried about damaging my endpin assembly.
Definitely, good to hear. Thanks for the advice.
I play german bow, and used to play holding the bass straight up. My teacher would try to get me to lean the bass back, but it never really worked for me.
I ended up switching to a laborie endpin several months ago. My first introduction to the pin was John Clayton, who really recommends it to everyone. I tried his bass, and thought, eh. Maybe its good for him, but I don't need it. Over the course of the next year I ended up sitting in on different basses that had the laborie pin. The first few times it was unsettling, but then one night I finally played it and it just "worked." When I next picked up my bass, I knew I needed to switch.
It does take some getting used to to properly maximize the efficiency of it, and I imagine I still have some ways to go. You can have the hole drilled going straight back, or off to either side, and it just depends on what works for you. Mine currently sits off to the left, but after playing on a bass with it straight back I am considering have the hole re-drilled. You have to experiment with the length of the pin.
But playing on a straight endpin now makes the bass feel like it weighs a ton!
I should note I am primarily a jazz player, and while I think its great for playing jazz, the biggest difference comes when playing arco. Its so easy to use the weight of your arm to drop into the string because the bow is now on top of the string instead alongside it. You have everywhere from the fingerboard to the bridge in easy reach with your bow arm.
I ended up switching to a laborie endpin several months ago. My first introduction to the pin was John Clayton, who really recommends it to everyone. I tried his bass, and thought, eh. Maybe its good for him, but I don't need it. Over the course of the next year I ended up sitting in on different basses that had the laborie pin. The first few times it was unsettling, but then one night I finally played it and it just "worked." When I next picked up my bass, I knew I needed to switch.
It does take some getting used to to properly maximize the efficiency of it, and I imagine I still have some ways to go. You can have the hole drilled going straight back, or off to either side, and it just depends on what works for you. Mine currently sits off to the left, but after playing on a bass with it straight back I am considering have the hole re-drilled. You have to experiment with the length of the pin.
But playing on a straight endpin now makes the bass feel like it weighs a ton!
I should note I am primarily a jazz player, and while I think its great for playing jazz, the biggest difference comes when playing arco. Its so easy to use the weight of your arm to drop into the string because the bow is now on top of the string instead alongside it. You have everywhere from the fingerboard to the bridge in easy reach with your bow arm.
For me, when I play with a straight endpin then I must adopt a separate posture when I get into thumb position...either I've rested my left armpit on the heel of the neck (making it necessary for my back to hunch over the bass), or I've stepped away from the bass to lean the neck onto my left shoulder, or perhaps I've adopted some stance that takes account of both options to some degree.
This is my way, and I must make some physical transition to get in and out of thumb position.
With the eggpin or angled endpin however, I can instead (or rather, must) let the bass stand at an angle towards me all the time. So getting to thumb position doesn't take anywhere near as much movement from my body.
Check out Renaud Garcia Fons or Francois Rabbath or Gary Karr on youtube or wherever and watch their bodies and arms, what they are doing. You will see the difference.
I'm not saying Karr's got it wrong or anything. In fact, I'd argue instead that without the angled endpin Rabbath's strategy would need to require the player to sit to gain much (if any) popularity, and Karr's strategy would be the standard for standing with a bass and playing it with the greatest technical advantage.
Oh yeah and you should watch Paul Chambers play too. He lets the bass hang towards him at an angle with a straight endpin...and Rabbath argued for such a stance way before angled endpins came on the scene. These guys were born for rebellion...
Nah you won't hurt your endpin plug or the block by using a bent endpin unless you're trying to do something that even a straight endpin wouldn't stop. The only drawback I've experienced with a bent endpin and Laborie endpin is that there are far fewer adjustments available to the user when compared to the eggpin. I still have my bent endpin, though it's not really bent it's been cut and welded back together at a 45 degree angle.
I like the cyborgish appearance of the eggpin, I like being able to continually experiment with angle and height without much problem, and I'm not yet sensitive enough towards the quality of my sound to feel like I'm missing much...well, except that I admit I do like the look of all the wooden endpins I've seen.
Oh yeah and I second anything George Vance offers to the bass playing community. First rate stuff!
- Jan 24, 2002
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- 950
- Disclosures
- NS Design / AER Endorsing Artist
I have seen a product that attaches to the bottom to the bass that makes a Laborie hole available without actually drilling a hole. It's available from [Invalid or Expired Link Removed].
I do something like this, and my gut holds up the bass. I have quick, easy access to the whole bass, and I free very free when I play.
I think this way of approaching the instrument is not entirely dependent on the end pin.
So do I, and especially so with an angled endpin.
I agree. This is ultimately why I prefer using an angled endpin while standing and playing simultaneously.
A bent pin did do damage to my endpin. The torque on the pin literally smeared the end of my set screw inside the collar. the whole end got flattened out and the threads compressed - the set screw will no longer come out; good thing I don't need it to.
Wow. You didn't say anything about the collar...is it o.k.?
I put a notch into my bent endpin for the screw to go into to "lock" the endpin into place without having to tighten the screw so much. I was a little worried that friction alone wouldn't hold the endpin very well without a lot of tightening.
Of course, the eggpin is a compression-type fitting around the collar and uses friction also...but there's a lot more surface to "grab" compared to the end of a screw and so it works much better.
I put a notch into my bent endpin for the screw to go into to "lock" the endpin into place without having to tighten the screw so much. I was a little worried that friction alone wouldn't hold the endpin very well without a lot of tightening.
Of course, the eggpin is a compression-type fitting around the collar and uses friction also...but there's a lot more surface to "grab" compared to the end of a screw and so it works much better.
I always wonder what the difference in volume and sound are between the different possibilities. I guess I make that my #1 priority in anything I choose to change on my instrument. Of course I only sit when I play so I shouldnt be commenting on this topic... 
