Double Bass Getting a more modern tone on a Fishman BP-100

[Sean Riddle]

So I'm in high school and as of now I am stuck with a Fishman BP-100 on an old German bass I use. I have mixed feelings about the pickup. I can dial in some really nice woody old school tones, but both myself and my music director are craving a modern tone. Unless the department can muster enough money to buy a better pickup, I am stuck with the BP-100. So, what are some tips to getting a much better tone out of a BP-100?

 

[Ric Vice]

So I'm in high school and as of now I am stuck with a Fishman BP-100 on an old German bass I use. I have mixed feelings about the pickup. I can dial in some really nice woody old school tones, but both myself and my music director are craving a modern tone. Unless the department can muster enough money to buy a better pickup, I am stuck with the BP-100. So, what are some tips to getting a much better tone out of a BP-100?

Jazz Cat,
Well, I hate to tell you this, but the best thing you could do is purchase a different pickup. The BP-100 has the worst nasal, midrange honk, of all the pickups on the market. It's virtually impossible to get a decent sound out of it. Those mounting clips act like a mute on the bridge, altering the sound coming off the instrument.
There is a box made by Francis Deck, called the HPF/Buffer Pre Amp. It will certainly help the tone of the BP-100, but it can't make a "silk purse out of a sows ear". Since I don't know what you mean by "modern sound", I can't address that. Most of us are trying to reproduce the sound that our instruments make
acoustically. The HPF/Pre would be the first step, toward getting a decent sound from that old german bass.

https://sites.google.com/site/hpftechllc/home/hpf-pre.
You order them directly from him and either the Series 1 or Series 2 will help with the BP-100's sound somewhat. I have also heard players talk about inserting the BP-100's elements into the "wing slots" on your bridge to avoid the clamps.

Ric


P.S. Of course Fishman has a two different pre amps that will moderate that problem, but by the time you add the cost of those units to the price of the pickup. You'd be better off just getting a Realist, Realist Life Line, Fishman Full Circle, Shadow, or Underwood.

 

[Michael Eisenman]

Not to forget the K&K Bass Max, at only about $100. It is capable of producing very nice sounds, depending on your setup; it was my first pickup; and it's been my backup pickup for my Full Circle and now my Realist Lifeline.

BTW, Jazzcat, which amp do you use?

 

[Sean Riddle]

Most of us are trying to reproduce the sound that our instruments make
That's the best way to describe what we're looking for! I'm considering to mic the bass. Some of my friends were recording some music recently and recorded me playing on this crappy plywood bass acoustically. It was honestly the best tone I have ever gotten and I'm craving to get it back. The only downside would be that I would have to haul and extra piece of equipment when we're playing outside of school as I would need an amp for when I play electric, but I know it would be worth it.

BTW, Jazzcat, which amp do you use?

I use a Roland FP 550 I believe. The amp has been through considerable abuse due to the crappy directors that came before my current director.

 

[Ric Vice]

Most of us are trying to reproduce the sound that our instruments make
That's the best way to describe what we're looking for! I'm considering to mic the bass. Some of my friends were recording some music recently and recorded me playing on this crappy plywood bass acoustically. It was honestly the best tone I have ever gotten and I'm craving to get it back.

Microphones, can yield wonderful results, but they are tricky to use in high volume situations. It also usually takes a adjustment to get used to playing through one in a live setting. Recording, a bass with a mic is a bit easier, than playing into a microphone, from the bandstand.

The best way to find out if you're ready for that would be to borrow a Shure SM 58, and try it out on some gigs. It will for sure (no pun intended) sound better than the BP-100. You can either suspend it from the bridge with some kind of cradle, or just place it on a mic stand with a boom. To play through an amplifier, you'll need a line transformer that adapts an XLR microphone jack into a 1/4" Phone Plug. You can get one at either Radio Shack, Guitar Center, or off the internet.

Ric

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I can dial in some really nice woody old school tones

So what's the problem? Post a recording of the bass sound you would like to emulate.

 

[dperrott]

Experiment with clipping the elements on either side of the bridge. That was my first pickup and it sounded better on the tailpiece side. I knew a guy who had one on each side. There is often a tonal or volume difference.If you find an ideal location you could hot glue it on. I think guys used to do that. It would be removable and you get rid of the clips/mute factor.

 

[Ric Vice]

Experiment with clipping the elements on either side of the bridge. That was my first pickup and it sounded better on the tailpiece side. I knew a guy who had one on each side. There is often a tonal or volume difference.If you find an ideal location you could hot glue it on. I think guys used to do that. It would be removable and you get rid of the clips/mute factor.

That's my one of my main objections to the BP-100. To install it properly, you have to clamp it to the bridge, and by doing that you mute the sound of your instrument. I was told by Don Underwood, that Fishman wanted to try a bridge wing pickup, but since Don had the patten rights for a Dual Element wing slot transducer. Fishman was blocked from doing it. So they had to alter their design with the clips. Gluing the discs to the bottom seems to work so that's the best way to go I suppose.

Ric

Ric

 

[Sean Riddle]

So what's the problem? Post a recording of the bass sound you would like to emulate.

I'm thinking around the areas of Ron Carter, Charlie Haden, Christian McBride, Stanley Clarke, the tones we're hearing on modern recordings.

Ric, my music director wants to get an adjustable bridge for the bass, so we're going to either decide on a whole new pickup or getting a high quality preamp. I'll fill you in on what the results turn out to be.

 

[Ric Vice]

I'm thinking around the areas of Ron Carter, Charlie Haden, Christian McBride, Stanley Clarke, the tones we're hearing on modern recordings.

Ric, my music director wants to get an adjustable bridge for the bass, so we're going to either decide on a whole new pickup or getting a high quality preamp. I'll fill you in on what the results turn out to be.

Jazz Cat

Knowing that the adjustable bridge is possibly in the works, gives you a great opportunity to install a Fishman Full Circle, as it is inside one adjuster and a second adjuster is provided with the pickup,or the Realist Life Line that mounts behind one of the adjusters. In looking at your list of favorite players I couldn't help but notice, that every player on your list except two uses a different pickups. Here's the scoop

Ron Carter uses a Realist

Charlie Hayden uses a Scherter Dyn-B Vintage

Christian Mc Bride has used a Electro Voice RE 20, and he has used a Realist

Stanley Clarke apparently uses. Fishman BP 100


Their recorded sound comes of their instruments directly into high quality studio microphones like a Neumann U78 or a Schoeps MK21 Capsule with a CMC6 Amplifier. Ocassionally, the engineer will take a second feed of the pickup, but not that often. Good Luck I hope your efforts work out.

Ric

 

[Eric Hochberg]

I'm thinking around the areas of Ron Carter, Charlie Haden, Christian McBride, Stanley Clarke, the tones we're hearing on modern recordings.

As Ric said, pickups play a small part, if any, in the studio recordings you are talking about. I repeat, if you want real feedback, site some actual examples of the sound you are looking for.

All of the players you listed have their own sound created by their technique, bass, strings and setup, and a particular pickup isn't going to make you sound like any of them. In fact, the pickups Ric writes about will all sound different depending upon the particular bass they are attached to.

 

[Sean Riddle]

Jazz Cat

Ron Carter uses a Realist

Charlie Hayden uses a Scherter Dyn-B Vintage

Christian Mc Bride has used a Electro Voice RE 20, and he has used a Realist

Stanley Clarke apparently uses. Fishman BP 100
/QUOTE]

It's all in their touch, so I know I'll never get anywhere near their tone. I did check out a picture of Stanley Clarke playing and I saw that he glues the transducers onto his bridge. Thanks for the input Ric.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Jazz Cat

Ron Carter uses a Realist

Charlie Hayden uses a Scherter Dyn-B Vintage

Christian Mc Bride has used a Electro Voice RE 20, and he has used a Realist

Stanley Clarke apparently uses. Fishman BP 100
/QUOTE]

It's all in their touch, so I know I'll never get anywhere near their tone. I did check out a picture of Stanley Clarke playing and I saw that he glues the transducers onto his bridge. Thanks for the input Ric.

Yes, it's all in their touch. I do find it interesting that you (Jazzcat) mention the sounds Charlie Haden and Stanley Clarke get because I find them generally to be quite different.
Much of the sound depends on the bass itself and how it is setup, although experienced players often get 'their' sound on different basses.

I'm with Ric. If you have the opportunity, put a Full Circle on the bass and that may go a long way to helping you get a usable sound.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

And get an FDeck HPFpre series I or II with the Full Circle. You never know if the amp you have to use works without a preamp. I once tried a bass guitar amp with the full circle and had the worst sound I can remember. I needed the impedance buffer (of a preamp) and some experimenting with the polar pickup orientation before I had a sound I could accept or like.

Or get the Shadow SH-965NFX. Even nicer with the bow than the Full Circle, but does not punch through pizzed as much. And since it already has a impedance buffer built-in it probably would be cheaper than the Full Circle plus the HPFpre. The Shadow looks similar to the Realist, but I think it sounds much better. (And you do not need an adjustable bridge for this pickup.)

 

[banikek]

My best luck with the BP-100 was to take the two discs and put them together, shiny side to shiny side. Then wedge the two discs into the E side bridge wing with a peice of cork. Nice and tight. Very similar to the K&K Bass Max. This with an FDeck got a usable tone. This was on an old American Standard ply bass and I was playing bluegrass/folk.

 

[Sean Riddle]

So I put some scotch tape on the transducers of the fishman and stuck it to the bridge of my bass. I was actually quite surprised at the tone I got. That P.O.S. pickup was able to become a whole new pickup.