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Getting decent sound in a big space
- Thread starter tothemax
- Start date
Sound board is cheap and works well. It's not transparent but does work.
We've played in echo chambers before and most everything gets lost in the mix. Best thing to do is make sure the vocals can be heard and adjust everything to that level. People like to hear the words/melody and as long as everything else is in key, they're fine with it.
For the bass, less bass, more mids may help. Also, flats with lots of bridge muting foam helps so your notes don't ring out much and get more lost in the mix.
Be sure that everyone's amp is at ear level or tilted back so they can hear it. We always had a problem where one guy keeps turning up because he can't hear himself. Tuning up won't necessarily make things sound better.
Since you're the BL, I suggest you go wireless so you can walk around to balance out the mix.
Also, have a band meeting and let everyone know what you'll be doing at the gig and to follow your requests for volume changes, regardless of what it sounds like to them on stage. If they can't hear themselves, they have to adapt the position of their amp or the PA monitor or their EQ. Turning up is not an option.
Good luck.
Thanks again, great info...
The good and the bad is that we have the room to practice in one night a week, so we have the time to work things out. But you hate to spend limited practice time on sound, but without a decent sound rehearsals are pretty ineffective.
Two things that I'll make a priority this week.
1) Work on a vocal sound without any instuments first - once we get that working then start adding things in.
2) Have the drummer play with vocals only so he can get a feel for the mix. I considered moving him around, but since we'll be playing in this room we should figure out a "stage" area and try to keep to it. I've thought about getting another monitor for him, but at this point having him try to hear the mix might be a better plan.
The good and the bad is that we have the room to practice in one night a week, so we have the time to work things out. But you hate to spend limited practice time on sound, but without a decent sound rehearsals are pretty ineffective.
Two things that I'll make a priority this week.
1) Work on a vocal sound without any instuments first - once we get that working then start adding things in.
2) Have the drummer play with vocals only so he can get a feel for the mix. I considered moving him around, but since we'll be playing in this room we should figure out a "stage" area and try to keep to it. I've thought about getting another monitor for him, but at this point having him try to hear the mix might be a better plan.
we relocated the band area 3-4 times before we found the best area. we put it sort of angled int eh corner to get the longest throw, and hit angled walls rather than dead on. in my opinion, it made the sound baffles more effective.
download a SPL/Db meter on your phone - not as gospel, but as an indicator of progress.
shoot a few pics of the place from the play area and from the listeners point and post for us
Back in the day I was the FOH guy for a party band, and we played a lot of frat house rooms with hard floors, hard ceilings and lots of glass. They were acoustically problematic, to say the least. Something that worked for me was to pump up the kick drum a whole lot; it takes very stout walls to reflect low frequencies and the drunken college students only seemed to care about the beat.
Drum kits can also be dampened at the kit-level. Pads, weights, sticky gel, tape, cloth, on the skins of the snare&toms, towels in the kick drum. Even tape on the cymbals if needed. For the sticks, use hot rods or "fire sticks", and the drummer has to control the playing. At a rehearsal at my house, one drummer friend put a practice pad on the snare to mute the snare. I did not ask him to do it, he just quickly assessed the situation and did it. Worked out well. Drummers need to know how to tune and setup the drum kits they play to sound optimal in the room they are in, with the kind of music they are performing.
Everything else has volume knobs on them, so they will be easier to deal with.
Everything else has volume knobs on them, so they will be easier to deal with.
If his audience is genuinely interested in hearing the music rather than drunkenly jerking around to a pounding beat, then you are right. I'm so glad I will never have to be FOH at a frat party again. Drunks staggering into the mixer space and reaching for knobs, drunks trying to get onto the stage and "help" the band, having to pull all the cables through a towel when wrapping them (don't ask) That chapter of my life is closed.
Made a few changes tonight... first put the drummer on a carpet also behind us in line with the guitar and bass amps. As mentioned I got their early and tweaked the sound so that the vocals were really clear. Since we will be playing in this room we did a semi-gig setup with everyone positioned close to where they would be for playing live.
We use a pair of angle floor monitors and we put them up on low tables about 5 ft. in front of the mic stands so we could really hear the vocals. I started on drum baffle, but didn't get it finished - I think with that we should be good. Started out playing some low key stuff - Margaritaville, Brown eyed girl, where the drummer had to back off and that worked pretty well to set the level for when things picked up.
Made for a much better practice...
The drum baffle I made is a 3.5" furring frame with panel on the front and acoustic ceiling tiles on the inside filled with wall insulation - it's about 4'h x 6'w and has two "wings" - picture the old Lawrence Welk bandstand. The sides are from old doors and I'm thinking about putting either old carpet or yoga mat on it. It's pretty slick and will fold up into a single section. I figure between that and the carpet we should have a big improvement - we'll find out next week.
I appreciate the feedback...
We use a pair of angle floor monitors and we put them up on low tables about 5 ft. in front of the mic stands so we could really hear the vocals. I started on drum baffle, but didn't get it finished - I think with that we should be good. Started out playing some low key stuff - Margaritaville, Brown eyed girl, where the drummer had to back off and that worked pretty well to set the level for when things picked up.
Made for a much better practice...
The drum baffle I made is a 3.5" furring frame with panel on the front and acoustic ceiling tiles on the inside filled with wall insulation - it's about 4'h x 6'w and has two "wings" - picture the old Lawrence Welk bandstand. The sides are from old doors and I'm thinking about putting either old carpet or yoga mat on it. It's pretty slick and will fold up into a single section. I figure between that and the carpet we should have a big improvement - we'll find out next week.
I appreciate the feedback...
Might go that route... I was at HD yesterday and didn't see it or I might have bought a sheet. Between the carpet and the baffle I'm about $80 into the project. I'll probably hold off any additional effort until we see if it makes a difference. Also trying to keep the weight down so it is easy to move around.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I deleted my reference to sound board because it won't hold up when being moved around. The edges are easy to ding and will kinda shred up after while.
Sounds like what you have will work fine.
Good luck!
Hey, OP--thanks for the progress updates. Please keep 'em coming! Threads like this are among my faves on TB, because I always learn stuff from others' experiences.
Was thinking that if budget permits, acoustic panels might work very well on the drum gobo. Auralex or Prime Acoustic come to mind...
Was thinking that if budget permits, acoustic panels might work very well on the drum gobo. Auralex or Prime Acoustic come to mind...
Well, we took last week off with the holiday and resumed last night.
I built the enclosure baffle, it came out nice and as was warned here it really didn't do much. With the weather we were a couple of guys down with colds (guitar, bass, and singer). But, we had a new guy that wants to play guitar but doesn't know the songs, so I brought my bass and drafted him last night - he's young and eager, and "he's young and eager..." (seriously he gave it a good shot). It's just kind of tough when you're trying to work on volume control and you have a new "lead" bass. Since we were short last night I only brought my Blues Jr. thinking it might help tone things down. I was cranking it and could barely hear myself.
The overall sound was bad and only got worse through the night. But the one highlight was I had our second drummer switch in for a song and he played at proper volume (and I noticed some recognition of that). He played congas most of the night. But it was good to have him there.
The new tack... I assigned younger drummer some homework. Go to a few of the smaller clubs in our area and really listen to the mix and watch what the drummers are doing, talk to them about setting up for smaller rooms. See if you can tell when it's right and when it's off.
But we are all having fun and I don't want it to get personal... will follow up next week.
I built the enclosure baffle, it came out nice and as was warned here it really didn't do much. With the weather we were a couple of guys down with colds (guitar, bass, and singer). But, we had a new guy that wants to play guitar but doesn't know the songs, so I brought my bass and drafted him last night - he's young and eager, and "he's young and eager..." (seriously he gave it a good shot). It's just kind of tough when you're trying to work on volume control and you have a new "lead" bass. Since we were short last night I only brought my Blues Jr. thinking it might help tone things down. I was cranking it and could barely hear myself.
The overall sound was bad and only got worse through the night. But the one highlight was I had our second drummer switch in for a song and he played at proper volume (and I noticed some recognition of that). He played congas most of the night. But it was good to have him there.
The new tack... I assigned younger drummer some homework. Go to a few of the smaller clubs in our area and really listen to the mix and watch what the drummers are doing, talk to them about setting up for smaller rooms. See if you can tell when it's right and when it's off.
But we are all having fun and I don't want it to get personal... will follow up next week.
This week we had a little better go of things. One drummer was out and the other was late so we began practice with a drum machine through the PA. It was immediately clear how much the loud drumming was affecting practice. Because once he did arrive and set up the volume went up beyod what was acceptable.
Again being a volunteer community group patience is golden and it's also becoming clear that we will need to work with him to develop some control or we use the drum machine (or the other drummer who can play to the room and audience). Patience and understanding aside our practice time is valuable and everyone has to pull their weight. Maybe a shock collar...
The good news was that with the drum machine the room is a little boomy but not that bad and were able to get a pretty good mix and sound.
He's good kid so I think it will wrk out, just may take some time. We've asked to get some really light sticks (I think they are called Hot shots) and we may get him to give up the double kick until he tones it down.
Again being a volunteer community group patience is golden and it's also becoming clear that we will need to work with him to develop some control or we use the drum machine (or the other drummer who can play to the room and audience). Patience and understanding aside our practice time is valuable and everyone has to pull their weight. Maybe a shock collar...
The good news was that with the drum machine the room is a little boomy but not that bad and were able to get a pretty good mix and sound.
He's good kid so I think it will wrk out, just may take some time. We've asked to get some really light sticks (I think they are called Hot shots) and we may get him to give up the double kick until he tones it down.
Bundles, moon gel, pads, techiunique.......
D - All of the above
good job - you should get up with me offline - i am In dover - maybe an hour away - I can show you what we did and how it also helped?
D - All of the above
good job - you should get up with me offline - i am In dover - maybe an hour away - I can show you what we did and how it also helped?
