Getting into Theory...

[Nick Yordon]

For the longest time I been learning song after song,challenging myself to play hard difficult stuff. learning scales, and writing stuff when collaborating with other musician. I'm always trying to improve and continuously get better. But where does that all take me? I always felt like there's something i.m missing out on,that theirs more to it then what i'm learning. I read an article in bass player mag with Nate Mondell and he explained how he got into theory. Hmm theory whats that? well it didn't take me long to learn about theory as naturally without knowing it I always knew about it I just didn't know what it was called I guess. Chords and triads and seventh chords.I mean talk about a mess in your brain.The notes in each chord. My point is that i'm still not understanding it fully I need a REAL good definition or explination or maybe a youtube video to really explain the whole " theory" thing...cn anyone help me out?

edited for language - Mod.

 

[DiabolusInMusic]

Theory is a broad term to cover musical concepts. Anything specifically you are hoping to cover? You will not be learning everything before your dead, you got to pick and choose.

As far as what a bassist should know, I would recommend starting on chord tones and rhythms. That should keep you busy for a while. There are lots of good resources on this site. Hit up @mambo4 for a free PDF on theory, it is a good start.

Side note.... I guess clustershag beats the censor...

 

[ZenG]

I think the trick with "theory" is to look at it as a resource and not be overwhelmed by the sheer amount of theory that exists.

A little bit goes a long way in the beginning.

Take what you need and apply it to what you are currently doing to shed further light on where you are at.

You will find that one thing leads to another anyway as time goes on.

There is such a thing as "useless' information. You can learn everything there ever was about "theory"...but if it's never applied to any specific instance in you musical journey.....then what good was knowing it?

Couple that with:- How much information do you need to accomplish a musical task? Is that information beneficial? Are you better off for having that information?

In my view it is better to know.........but just don't get overwhelmed by it......it's easy to get overwhelmed......

There are thousands of musicians out there that couldn't tell you the difference between a tri-tone and an augmented 5th........but they're still enjoying themselves playing music.....

 

[mambo4]

Are you asking for a concise definition of Music Theory,
advice about how to approach learning ,
or explanation of how to "use" it?
the following paraphrased form older posts of mine:

My best definition of Theory is "Useful patterns and definitions (of the western 12 note scale) to know"

A logical approach to learning is kinda like this:

1. learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2. learn the 12 intervals and their names
3. learn the minor scale and the dominant scale and how it relates to the major scale
4. understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
5. Learn how to harmonize the notes of a major and minor scale by building chords / stacking thirds
6. Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" ( I-IV-V etc.) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
7. learn arpeggios/chord tones, and pentatonic scales for major/minor/dominant scales.
8. (Maybe) dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

Applying theory (for bassists) is basically a matter of learning what to play over various chords, and
connecting root notes to root notes using a stylistically appropriate rhythm and note choice.
The absolute best route to that is to learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bass line relates to the chords.

There are exception to everything as always, but the above describes the general landscape of theory IMHO.

 

[Gaolee]

Scales and chords are just patterns. Theory is just patterns. It's a different way of thinking about the same patterns, just in a way you can move the pattern around without losing anything. Learn what patterns you need first and then work from there.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

............ My point is that i'm still not understanding it fully I need a REAL good definition or explination or maybe a youtube video to really explain the whole " theory" thing...cn anyone help me out?

Theory helped me understand how music thinks. Once I knew that everything began to fall into place. That will not happen over night. This paper is a good place to start. Music Theory Book - Free Download | TalkBass.com Plan on this paper taking you several months to digest. Look for why those intervals fit with each other. Ask yourself why is that working together...

Music likes harmony. If the melody notes are repeated in the chord played under that melody, that chord harmonizes the melody and the two lines sound good together. It's the sharing of notes that music likes. What notes......

All notes of a specific scale will sound good with each other.
All chords made from that scale will sound good with each other.
When we combine the scale (aka melody) with the harmony (aka chord tones) good things happen.

Knowing how music thinks and then if we let music do what it likes to do; good things happen, i.e. we learn that the dominant chord wants to resolve to the tonic chord - don't fight it, let it happen.

Then there is that rhythm thing... Melody plus harmony plus rhythm make some really beautiful sounds. The basic building blocks of melody and harmony pretty much stay the same no matter what type of music you play, its the rhythm that set the styles apart.

Hope that turned on a light in the tunnel.

 

[Xmaspast]

I was in the same boat as you recently. I've been playing bass since i was 10, I'm 23 now, and I've only recently gotten into theory and tried to start understanding how music really works. The little bit goes a long way tip is definitely the truest thing about theory. Once you know some basics you can really jump into anything in look at it. For instance, the first thing I did when I started looking at terminology was to take a look at songs that I was already very familiar with and try to break down the individual parts. I took songs that I knew and that I loved playing, like songs by Rush, Joni Mitchell, or other musicians, and started to break down what were the roots, the fifths, etc. It's a fun way to look at theory without it getting boring.

 

[TyBo]

I started out on guitar (and still play), and I found that to be a very good doorway into theory, as it's all right there under your fingers, not so much an abstraction. You learn instinctively what notes on the fingerboard go together, how the scales relate to the chords, what the relative minor to a chord is, etc. That's one way to get a solid feel for chord theory.

 

[pnchad]

For the longest time I been learning song after song,challenging myself to play hard difficult stuff. learning scales, and writing stuff when collaborating with other musician. I'm always trying to improve and continuously get better. But where does that all take me? I always felt like there's something i.m missing out on,that theirs more to it then what i'm learning. I read an article in bass player mag with Nate Mondell and he explained how he got into theory. Hmm theory whats that? well it didn't take me long to learn about theory as naturally without knowing it I always knew about it I just didn't know what it was called I guess. Chords and triads and seventh chords.I mean talk about a mess in your brain.The notes in each chord. My point is that i'm still not understanding it fully I need a REAL good definition or explination or maybe a youtube video to really explain the whole " theory" thing...cn anyone help me out?

edited for language - Mod.

Now, I don't care who you are, that there's funny!

Yep, there's a 20 min vid on the Tube - hook you right up

Okay sorry - don't want to troll - music theory is a life long educational process - Charlie Parker practiced 12 - 16 hrs/day for years - most of which was theory - always new theory

Get a book or two

 

[Nick Yordon]

Now, I don't care who you are, that there's funny!

Yep, there's a 20 min vid on the Tube - hook you right up

Okay sorry - don't want to troll - music theory is a life long educational process - Charlie Parker practiced 12 - 16 hrs/day for years - most of which was theory - always new theory

Get a book or two

Fuuny??you must have a lame or weird sense of humor

 

[pnchad]

yes, funny - it's called an education - not something you can get from a YT vid in an hour

immediate gratification?

 

[mambo4]

It's a valid point: Theory is BIG.
The reason it is a lifetime of study is that the patterns inter relate in a limitless number of ways.

But there is a large chunk (described in my earlier post) that, once you bite it off, can provide you with most of the theory you will ever need, namely: What to play given a set of chords , and how a set of chords relates to each other. The rest is exploring the dark obscure edge cases of theory.

 

[Bodhammer]

Based on some recommendations here in some other similar threads, I picked up used copies for cheap from Amazon of

Musicianship for the Contemporary Bassist

and

Edly's Music Theory for Practical People, 2nd Edition

I spent some time with the Edly's yesterday on the airplane. I like the approach, it is thorough but not too "intellectual" as compared to other stuff I have read. I have not received the Musicianship book yet. Edly's was $.043 + $4 shipping and the other was $2.43 + $3.99 for shipping. I think it is just finding a set of material that is approachable for you and doing the work. It is a slow slog for me but being an engineer/computer guy, I feel I need the theory or I feel a little lost...

 

[Nick Yordon]

yeah tool is an awesome band

 

[Ten Four One]

1. Edly's Music Theory for Practical People is a good place to start. I find some faults with it, but it'll get you from A to B very well - now to get from C to Z is a completely different story.

2. Basically, the core of music theory is memorize the major scale & practice traids in the major scale. Everything else stems from there.

3. There's something called a minor scale. It's basically a major scale with minor notes in it... sometimes.

4. None of these things will you music "theory." These things are to music theory as memorizing the rules for a learner's permit exam is to driving.

5. There are two kinds of music theory. Classical ("Common practice era") and Jazz. Leaning Classical theory will give you a solid foundation for Jazz. It will also cause you to have to unlearn much of what you've learned to learn Jazz. One is vertical, one is horizontal.

 

[Rayjay]

IMHO theory would be best learned from a teacher. It doesn't need to be a bass teacher either, but they should be someone who can break things down to a rudimentary level for you. I use theory all the time. I especially use it to transcribe. It is so involuntary now that I accidentally transcribe the background music when I space out in public. Its great to be able to use that skill, and it helps relate to other people in the band when you're explaining things. My understanding of theory came from years of dedication, but I love music and therefore it didn't seem like work, it was fun. Its a big plus to be able to know a bassline without even touching your bass. Good luck!

 

[pnchad]

There's no malice intended but there does seem to be a fundamental misunderstanding of what the process of learning entails

You can approach music as a raw primitive punk type thing where you do what you do and if it's good you might get somewhere and find a unique voice. The key word there is MIGHT.

The term 'theory' is like saying science. There's a huge amount of knowledge accrued over centuries (in Western music alone not even stretching into atonal, eastern forms/melodies and such).

If you really want to explore music and all its richness it starts with listening to all kinds of stuff, not just what you like right now but many different and strange forms.

For overall improvement as a well rounded musician getting out of your comfort zone is first. Listening to your fav bands over and over will NOT improve your understandings.

When I found this idea funny it was real. I started playing pro 6 nights/week at 17. I sucked but knew I sucked so I practiced many hrs/day and studied all sorts of stuff.

I took harmony classes from Berkley 40 yrs ago via cassette tapes & snail mail.

Been studying music for 40 yrs and am not close to understanding 'theory'. Luckily I grew up in a home where high quality music was the norm. Trained my ears without even knowing it.

Good luck

 

[pnchad]

IMHO theory would be best learned from a teacher. It doesn't need to be a bass teacher either, but they should be someone who can break things down to a rudimentary level for you. I use theory all the time. I especially use it to transcribe. It is so involuntary now that I accidentally transcribe the background music when I space out in public. Its great to be able to use that skill, and it helps relate to other people in the band when you're explaining things. My understanding of theory came from years of dedication, but I love music and therefore it didn't seem like work, it was fun. Its a big plus to be able to know a bassline without even touching your bass. Good luck!

Exactly - now that my experience is so deep I can listen to something pretty strange and/or difficult and even if I can't play it right off, I understand whats happening - even dissect it. I listen now to new & old things and subliminally figure out ALL the parts, not just the bass. It's extremely fun. I can practice without an instrument..

Wonderfulo

 

[The Bass Clef]

No poopie,gotta start somewhere.i swear there's just complete stuck up ******** on this website sometimes

Name calling will quickly get you banned from this site. You're asking if there's a you tube video you can watch real quick for something that takes years to fully understand. If you really want to learn and understand music theory, you should enroll yourself into some music classes or lessons. If you have a specific question, we are here to help, but there are so many facets to cover in music theory that no video is going to even scratch the surface. It's like asking if there's a video you can watch in 20 min to become a heart surgeon.

Please understand we are not being mean or snarky, it's just a HUGE topic to cover and theory is something in which you have to learn one concept before you can move on and grasp the next concept. Example.. before you can fully understand 7th chords, 9th chords, etc.. and how they're built/why they work, etc.. you first must understand intervals, scales, and how triads are built (and why). It's great that you are interested in diving into this, but know that most colleges teach theory over several semesters. It took 3 years to complete all the theory classes at the school I went to and several years afterwards to put most of what I learned into my actual playing. And I still have more to learn. It never ends (which is part of the fun!).

 

[tfer]

1. Edly's Music Theory for Practical People is a good place to start. I find some faults with it, but it'll get you from A to B very well - now to get from C to Z is a completely different story.

2. Basically, the core of music theory is memorize the major scale & practice traids in the major scale. Everything else stems from there.

3. There's something called a minor scale. It's basically a major scale with minor notes in it... sometimes.

4. None of these things will you music "theory." These things are to music theory as memorizing the rules for a learner's permit exam is to driving.

5. There are two kinds of music theory. Classical ("Common practice era") and Jazz. Leaning Classical theory will give you a solid foundation for Jazz. It will also cause you to have to unlearn much of what you've learned to learn Jazz. One is vertical, one is horizontal.

And nobody here has even BEGUN to explain the Harmonic Minor scale yet, or why it exists...