what the hell? two guitar amps, both pointed at you?
tell both of those inconsiderate SOBs to aim their amps somewhere else, or you'll do it for them
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Getting Lost In The Mix!
- Thread starter Bassman7PM
- Start date
tell both of those inconsiderate SOBs to aim their amps somewhere else, or you'll do it for them
I'll bet he uses an acoustic electric guitar, like an ES335? That's why he turns his amp up so loudly.
Maybe you can put a panel of sound board between you and the guitar player.
Possibly have a meeting with the leader and the guitarist and let them know that the guitarist's stage volume is causing you a problem. Maybe he could disable one of his speakers to cut the volume. Also, check out the volume attenuators: http://cgi.ebay.com/METAL-GUITAR-AT...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2eab85a428
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The 4 PRO should have the gain knob set so the Red LED is constantly lighting up - ignore the manual on this one. Leave all knobs flat and don't push the buttons in. Turn the bass knob to cut some of the low end to about a 3.5 out of 10 setting. The 410hlf is a low end powerhouse and you SHOULD never boost the low end into this cab, it will run out of power extremely quickly if you do that. If you set the input gain like I told you, you will have plenty of low end at your finger tips.
Boosting the EQ and basically having all knobs at the same level of boost is just like turning the volume up. The 4 PRO and the 410hlf are not very articulate or very strong in the high end world until you knock down some of the inherent low end push of BOTH units. The 4 PRO's flat settings equate for a strong low end presence. If you want, notch the EQ slider at 33 hz down a little too. By doing all of this, you will hear more low mids, mids, and highs. You will still have low end, just not a mountain of it. Now try your rig out, and definitely talk to the other guitarist about his volume. If you don't win, 2 ear plugs and the rig set up the way I suggested should work wonders.
Also, I suggest refraining from changing your tone for every song. The way I do it, I set the controls on my bass flat and only mess with the PU balancer knob, set the amp to sound good for finger style with a little clarity. For pick playing or more clarity, I just play closer to the bridge PU. If you want a rounder tone, just play closer the neck. You would be surprised how much tone change you can get doing this.
Boosting the EQ and basically having all knobs at the same level of boost is just like turning the volume up. The 4 PRO and the 410hlf are not very articulate or very strong in the high end world until you knock down some of the inherent low end push of BOTH units. The 4 PRO's flat settings equate for a strong low end presence. If you want, notch the EQ slider at 33 hz down a little too. By doing all of this, you will hear more low mids, mids, and highs. You will still have low end, just not a mountain of it. Now try your rig out, and definitely talk to the other guitarist about his volume. If you don't win, 2 ear plugs and the rig set up the way I suggested should work wonders.
Also, I suggest refraining from changing your tone for every song. The way I do it, I set the controls on my bass flat and only mess with the PU balancer knob, set the amp to sound good for finger style with a little clarity. For pick playing or more clarity, I just play closer to the bridge PU. If you want a rounder tone, just play closer the neck. You would be surprised how much tone change you can get doing this.
+1 to bringing the band leader in on this one.
You might all be good musicians individually but playing too loudly "at" each other constitutes a volume war.
By contrast, if everyone is willing to gets their speakers off the floor, orients them differently for each other's benefit, discuss as a team the most considerate and effective ways to get the stage mix right for everyone - that's a band.
You might all be good musicians individually but playing too loudly "at" each other constitutes a volume war.
By contrast, if everyone is willing to gets their speakers off the floor, orients them differently for each other's benefit, discuss as a team the most considerate and effective ways to get the stage mix right for everyone - that's a band.
try some ear protection, if not in ear monitors.
If you just use ear plugs, it still takes out alot of high end, which helps your problem anyways. I don't understand why all the instruments are so loud in your church band though. Are the drums caged?
If you just use ear plugs, it still takes out alot of high end, which helps your problem anyways. I don't understand why all the instruments are so loud in your church band though. Are the drums caged?
use earplugs, aim your cab towards you, tell your guitarrists to turn their amps away from you, and turn their volumes DOWN.
honestly, a lot of stage volume/monitoring issues with bands that don't have the privilege of using in ears, can be solved if electric guitarists are willing to keep their volume down. yes, its going to be a [marginal] compromise in tone for them, and yes, its going to take humility on their part, but its something any professional, humble musician should be able and willing to do.
honestly, a lot of stage volume/monitoring issues with bands that don't have the privilege of using in ears, can be solved if electric guitarists are willing to keep their volume down. yes, its going to be a [marginal] compromise in tone for them, and yes, its going to take humility on their part, but its something any professional, humble musician should be able and willing to do.
i can think of a couple of suggestions. honestly, for guitar in church a POD will work WONDERS. it can do all the sounds from the modern praise and worship and then some, without the issues that come from loud amps and poor mic placement. It is hard to get feedback, though. well, impossible really especially with IEM. If the guitaists don't like that suggestion and NEED the feel of a cranked up tube amp, there are plenty of micro tube amps 5 watts or less into anything from an 8, 10, or 12 inch speaker that would do the cranked sound and feel with much less volume. 5 watts can still be really loud, but a 22 to 50 watt fender 212 cranked up enough to get the tubes cooking is very loud, and really is overkill in nearly any situation. I've played guitar in church a bunch and I was never happier than when I used a pod and went direct.
i hope you can get this solved because everyone will play better. if you must, offer donuts on sunday mornings as a bribe. church people love a good sunday donut.
i hope you can get this solved because everyone will play better. if you must, offer donuts on sunday mornings as a bribe. church people love a good sunday donut.
I use the Eden stuff. I rarely get lost in the mix. Maybe you could dink around with the tone controls and boost your mids a touch.
As for all the noise in the pit...I have "in ear monitors" that can be used with either a send from the board or the headphones jack on the front of the amp. I have used the Sony7506's connected to the headphone jack and let the little bleed from the other instruments get in to the mix there...
I am pretty sure that it isn't about power. I agree with the others about the shaping of your tone to fit the whole show, not just one song or other.
JMT
As for all the noise in the pit...I have "in ear monitors" that can be used with either a send from the board or the headphones jack on the front of the amp. I have used the Sony7506's connected to the headphone jack and let the little bleed from the other instruments get in to the mix there...
I am pretty sure that it isn't about power. I agree with the others about the shaping of your tone to fit the whole show, not just one song or other.
JMT
I don't think I'd venture to give advice on how to set his amp/bass eq, not being actually present in the pit. Also, the goal of your sound should be to give a good tone to the FOH, not necessarily for your personal monitoring.
I'm in 100% total agreement that this group needs to seriously consider different ways of doing things. Not real professional to have everyone down there blasting their own amps at will. At the very least, isolation chambers. Or it could be taken to a powerbrake (or similar) for the guitar amps. I can't argue that for some things the power tubes have to be cooking, but I've always wondered that with 15 pedals in front of the guitar amp, is the guitar amp tone "really" that important? Most of the guitarists that I know have at least 1, if not 3, overdrive and/or distortion pedals in the pedalboard.
My vote is smaller amps, and a complete Aviom system. You would never understand, until you've used one, what GREAT monitoring really is. Yes, it's that good.
Good luck.
I'm in 100% total agreement that this group needs to seriously consider different ways of doing things. Not real professional to have everyone down there blasting their own amps at will. At the very least, isolation chambers. Or it could be taken to a powerbrake (or similar) for the guitar amps. I can't argue that for some things the power tubes have to be cooking, but I've always wondered that with 15 pedals in front of the guitar amp, is the guitar amp tone "really" that important? Most of the guitarists that I know have at least 1, if not 3, overdrive and/or distortion pedals in the pedalboard.
My vote is smaller amps, and a complete Aviom system. You would never understand, until you've used one, what GREAT monitoring really is. Yes, it's that good.
Good luck.
