Gibson 3 Point Bridge Loathing

[BassDaddy77]

So a couple days ago I commented in a thread about the new Gibson Les Paul Tribute Bass. There were several folks who commented in regards to wishing that Gibson would have done away with that bridge design. So that got me wondering if this would be a more appropriate sub forum for the inquiry. This is my post from that thread, and I'd love to hear anybody's thoughts on this:

"I can't figure out the 3 point bridge hate. I've had 7 Gibson and Epiphone basses with them and never had any problems with action, intonation, or stability. In fact admittedly, they have required nearly zero adjustments once I got them set up.

Can those of you who detest these bridges explain your problematic experiences with them? The idea that there isn't any individual saddle height adjustment is really a non issue (at least for me) considering Gibson's flatter radius fingerboards. There's plenty of minute height adjustment ability between the 3 bridge screws, IMO. But maybe I'm crazy, or perhaps just happen to have a knack for working with them. I dunno, but I'd love to hear what other's think!"

 

[Matt Liebenau]

I don’t have an issue with them. I have an EB3, a JC signature and an old Hondo with that bridge and they’re fine. I made a spacer bar for the back of the Hondo so the string wraps were not on the saddle but that was mostly to have done it. The two Epiphones are fine. I think part of it is adjusting the bridge correctly. Seems to work best to have the front post set so the leading edge of the bridge is slightly higher then the back.

 

[sissy kathy]

Well I feel cheated. I bought a Gibson SD Limited around the new year and it came with a Babicz bridge That's the 'Limited' difference. The Limited is a couple hundred dollars LESS than the standard SG. I guess I could spend $50 for a real Gibson bridge and actually have a mod increase the value for a change. Nah, if it ain't broke.... But I'd at least be able to contribute to the conversation; wait, whud I just do?

 

[AboutSweetSue]

The three point works fine, imo. The Babicz does allow for easier and more accurate setups, but the hate barreled down on the three point isn’t justified.

 

[BassDaddy77]

So I'm not the only one after all! I had a 2014 Gibson EB and 2015 Thunderbird that came with the Babicz bridge. They are nice indeed, but I never felt like the setup / playability was any better than my 3 pt bridge equipped basses.

 

[walterw]

Can those of you who detest these bridges explain your problematic experiences with them?

i'll play.

take the strings off, flip the bass over and the saddles fall right out! there should at least be a wire across the screws like the ABR-1 guitar bridge. i've had customers break a string on stage and lose the saddle at the same time, meaning they had to finish the show with a 3-string bass.

as often as not there's not enough string length behind the saddle, the string's overwrap ends up sitting on the witness point.

this is more of an installation thing, but most of the time i discover that all the string tension is hitting the little front post instead of the two big back posts. i have to make a project of filing away metal in that front notch, just enough that the string pull is taken up by the back posts like it's supposed to be.

 

[BassDaddy77]

i'll play.

take the strings off, flip the bass over and the saddles fall right out! there should at least be a wire across the screws like the ABR-1 guitar bridge. i've had customers break a string on stage and lose the saddle at the same time, meaning they had to finish the show with a 3-string bass.

as often as not there's not enough string length behind the saddle, the string's overwrap ends up sitting on the witness point.

this is more of an installation thing, but most of the time i discover that all the string tension is hitting the little front post instead of the two big back posts. i have to make a project of filing away metal in that front notch, just enough that the string pull is taken up by the back posts like it's supposed to be.

I've seen the overwrap on the saddle myself, but it doesn't seem to make any difference in my experience. Adding a spacer or "mod bar" seems to be a common solution for this, but I can't see bothering with it if it's not causing any trouble. I never gave the loose saddles a consideration, but I can totally see where that could be problematic in the event of a broken string on stage! Valid points for sure, Walter!

 

[BassDaddy77]

this is more of an installation thing, but most of the time i discover that all the string tension is hitting the little front post instead of the two big back posts. i have to make a project of filing away metal in that front notch, just enough that the string pull is taken up by the back posts like it's supposed to be.

This is interesting. I'm having trouble visualizing what you mean. Any way you could post a picture to show this? How can you discern where most of the string tension is being focused? I had always heard that the bridge should be slightly elevated on the single screw end (towards the headstock) to produce a better break angle for the string-on-saddle arrangement.

 

[lowplaces]

Is this the mod bar mentioned ?
GIBSON® EPIPHONE® BASS BRIDGE 3-POINT (MOD-BAR!) | eBay

 

[sissy kathy]

Is this the mod bar mentioned ?
GIBSON® EPIPHONE® BASS BRIDGE 3-POINT (MOD-BAR!) | eBay

That's it. You can DIY much cheaper though.

 

[walterw]

This is interesting. I'm having trouble visualizing what you mean.

when this happens you can tell when you have the strings off; push forward on the bridge (in the direction of the string pull) and you can feel it rock slightly side to side, pivoting on the front post, meaning it's not fully pulling on the two back posts.

the error is usually on the order of like 1/64", barely more than the thickness of the plating.

 

[BassDaddy77]

when this happens you can tell when you have the strings off; push forward on the bridge (in the direction of the string pull) and you can feel it rock slightly side to side, pivoting on the front post, meaning it's not fully pulling on the two back posts.

the error is usually on the order of like 1/64", barely more than the thickness of the plating.

Ok, now I understand what you mean. I'm curious to see if any of mine fall under this scenario. Thank you for explaining!

 

[bcbassman]

I can tell you the source of a lot if not all of the Gibson 3 point bridge hate: A lot of the Gibson EB0 and EB3 and EB4 basses made during the 1970s are built with no neck angle. You cannot get the action low enough on these basses because you run out of adjustment on a 3 point bridge. These are the basses that started the need for BADAS* bridges and therefore a new business was born. A 3 point bridge requires a neck tilted back like on a Les Paul or any Gibson guitar. The next time you see a 70s EB bass check it out.

 

[wvbass]

I have three basses with these bridges, and I have problems with none of them. I had an Alembic with a similar bridge design (actually, more like a Gibson two-point bridge), and I've haven't heard much in the way of complaints about Alembic bridges.

 

[Arne Larsen]

So here is my issue, exactly... with my Epiphone Jack Casady... glad I found this thread.

I'm new to the bass and didn't realize what was happening until the other day; I'm playing and realizing that something was going wonky in that the consistency in my string height was way off. I'm pretty sure the distance between the fretboard and the 1st - 4th strings all used to be the same (although I'm not sure since I didn't know enough to notice a couple months ago), but now my E string is sitting way higher than my G string. Upon closer examination, I realized that the upper bridge post (the one closest to the E string) has pulled out approx 2mm (check the photos).


I'd prefer to not have to replace the bridge as my solution, rather... I'd like to remove and re-install the existing (original) bridge. The sound and sustain are fantastic, plus there's a little sentimental value going on here. I used to be a home inspector and one of my clients was the bass player for a well-known (at the time) Canadian band. This particular instrument toured Canada in 2011 and he gifted it to me as payment for the home inspection shortly thereafter. The instrument has been displayed in a glass cabinet (with strings on it, under tension) since I pulled it out, tuned it up, and got serious about learning to play this year.

Anyways, what are some solutions the DIY luthier community here has tried? Will pulling and re-installing the posts do the trick? Do I drop in a little wood glue before re-inserting? Do I re-hydrate the holes before re-installing? I've got some skills but would be interested in both successes and failures before running my own trial & error session

Thanks in advance!

 

[Turnaround]

A bit of Titebond or other quality wood glue should do the trick. Don't use Gorilla Glue - it has no place in instrument repair. Remove the post, apply glue to the hole making sure to cover the sides of the hole completely and resinsert the post. Allow it to cure completely before stringing up. Do both rear posts even though the G-string side seems fine now.

 

[Matt Liebenau]

Do like Turnaround said for the fix then, when you reassemble it, set it up so that the front of the bridge is slightly higher then the back. That will help keep the rear anchors from pulling out.

 

[Turnaround]

One of the problems I have seen with this bridge is not the bridge at all but what owners do with it. One common bit of advice that was popular was to raise the middle post to increase the break angle over the saddle and that would improve tone/sustain. So you would see some adjusted with the front post quite high relative to the back posts. Such a configuration may increase the break angle and therefore the downpressure at the saddle, but there was no tonal or sustain advantage to doing so. A minimum break angle is considered to be about 5 degrees, and increasing the angle has diminishing returns so that there is nothing at all to be gained beyond an extra few degrees, if that.
But there is a problem introduced as you increase the angle more than a few degrees - it creates more of a levering force on the back posts causing them to lift out. And I have seen this problem on 3-point bridges more often than not - meaning more of a problem with the owner than the bridge.

 

[Arne Larsen]

Excellent... thank you!
In my travels I found this thread out of the UK that also speaks to the problem, and had my doubts about epoxy.
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/136397/bass-bridge-problem-gibson-3-point-type

 

[Matt Liebenau]

One of the problems I have seen with this bridge is not the bridge at all but what owners do with it. One common bit of advice that was popular was to raise the middle post to increase the break angle over the saddle and that would improve tone/sustain. So you would see some adjusted with the front post quite high relative to the back posts. Such a configuration may increase the break angle and therefore the downpressure at the saddle, but there was no tonal or sustain advantage to doing so. A minimum break angle is considered to be about 5 degrees, and increasing the angle has diminishing returns so that there is nothing at all to be gained beyond an extra few degrees, if that.
But there is a problem introduced as you increase the angle more than a few degrees - it creates more of a levering force on the back posts causing them to lift out. And I have seen this problem on 3-point bridges more often than not - meaning more of a problem with the owner than the bridge.

To be clear, do you recommend the front post on a 3 point bridge to be higher or not? I have an Epiphone JC and an EB3 that I’ve always set up so the front post is slightly above the 2 back ones, I believe I read that on TB, and never had an issue with the inserts pulling out. Maybe I’ve been lucky? I also don’t want to be repeating bad advice.