Gibson Acquires Mesa/Boogie

[Jeff Scott]

Perhaps Gibson’s latest actions reveal its motivations? Dealers are apparently dropping Mesa because the dealer buy-in has reportedly tripled. Sounds like they think they’ve got a cash cow, and are hoping dealers will make big commitments. So far, Gibson has reduced its reach to customers. Good job!

If true, that's unfortunate.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Perhaps Gibson’s latest actions reveal its motivations? Dealers are apparently dropping Mesa because the dealer buy-in has reportedly tripled. Sounds like they think they’ve got a cash cow, and are hoping dealers will make big commitments. So far, Gibson has reduced its reach to customers. Good job!

Fender did the same thing a few years ago , hasn't slowed their roll...

 

[12BitSlab]

Perhaps Gibson’s latest actions reveal its motivations? Dealers are apparently dropping Mesa because the dealer buy-in has reportedly tripled. Sounds like they think they’ve got a cash cow, and are hoping dealers will make big commitments. So far, Gibson has reduced its reach to customers. Good job!

I would say that that you have managed to pack many accusations into four sentences. Do you have citations or other proof of any of the slights?

For example:

1) How many dealers are dropping Mesa? What is the population of dealers that you consider? Is that population measured by count of retail outlets, count of corporate entities, count of parent corporations, etc.?

2) Describe both the pre and post dealer requirements to be a certified Gibson dealer. Do the requirements apply to U.S. based dealers or a different geologic consideration? Is the alleged increase in “stock” based on unit counts, cost basis value, suggested retail price value, or some other criteria?

3) Describe Gibson’s alleged reach to its customers. Do you define customers as end users or dealers who resell Gibson products or some sort of combination thereof? Assuming the reduction is real, can Internet sales make up for it? Moreover, how will direct costs of the Gibson channel organization be affected?

4) What is the source (without naming individuals) for your assertions?

Lastly, it has been my experience in life that it is very easy to throw mud at someone/something else. Describing the who, what, when, where, and why of the mud is a different matter altogether and is, in practical terms, never revealed.

cc: @agedhorse

P.S. I have no interest in Gibson - financial or otherwise. I do not own any Gibson products whether produced by Gibson, a division thereof, a subsidiary thereof, or any sort of affiliate. I should note that I owned a Japanese built Epiphone bass from 1972 - 1975. I have never owned or used a Mesa product although I am intrigued by the TT-800.

 

[Pops OB]

I would say that that you have managed to pack many accusations into four sentences. Do you have citations or other proof of any of the slights?

For example:

1) How many dealers are dropping Mesa? What is the population of dealers that you consider? Is that population measured by count of retail outlets, count of corporate entities, count of parent corporations, etc.?

2) Describe both the pre and post dealer requirements to be a certified Gibson dealer. Do the requirements apply to U.S. based dealers or a different geologic consideration? Is the alleged increase in “stock” based on unit counts, cost basis value, suggested retail price value, or some other criteria?

3) Describe Gibson’s alleged reach to its customers. Do you define customers as end users or dealers who resell Gibson products or some sort of combination thereof? Assuming the reduction is real, can Internet sales make up for it? Moreover, how will direct costs of the Gibson channel organization be affected?

4) What is the source (without naming individuals) for your assertions?

Lastly, it has been my experience in life that it is very easy to throw mud at someone/something else. Describing the who, what, when, where, and why of the mud is a different matter altogether and is, in practical terms, never revealed.

cc: @agedhorse

P.S. I have no interest in Gibson - financial or otherwise. I do not own any Gibson products whether produced by Gibson, a division thereof, a subsidiary thereof, or any sort of affiliate. I should note that I owned a Japanese built Epiphone bass from 1972 - 1975. I have never owned or used a Mesa product although I am intrigued by the TT-800.

Very lawyerly, lol! “...(M)any accusations...”

Sentence 1: Opens asking a question, beginning with the word “perhaps.” At law, trust me, that’s no accusation.

Sentence 2: A statement using the word “apparently.” That word indicates that something appears in a certain way based on one’s observations, and the word “apparently” is used specifically to NOT be an accusation, but suggests the possibility.

Sentence 3: A statement that uses the words “sounds like.” Those words are used to indicate “seems to be.” Hardly an accusation.

Sentence 4: A statement which pretty much declares that when the number of outlets that carry a product is reduced, the reach to customers is reduced. Well, that IS a fact, even in the world of Amazon purchases.

Many accusations? Not in the least. But, I have talked to people about the lessening availability and actually spoken with a number of dealers who no longer carry the line any more and why. Perhaps your argument is with them?

 

[NeonVomit]

The last two posts have been very triggering to read because I just finished drafting a 46-page contract. Thanks for that!

Anyway, all I know is for the last week I've been searching and suddenly it seems virtually impossible to find any European dealers who have any Mesa Boogie stuff in stock. I sold my old GK 410 cab last week because I wanted a new 2x10, and I was between Darkglass and Mesa Boogie. I last checked about 1.5 months ago and everything seemed to be in stock.

Turns out almost overnight NOWHERE in the entire European continent or even the UK seems to have any Mesa stuff anymore. Plenty of places still seem to have Gibson stuff.

Anyone want to explain why this happened?

I would've liked to have gotten a Subway 2x10 to add to my 1x15. But I got a new Darkglass 2x10 cabinet from the local dealer here instead. I imagine Mesa is losing sales in similar ways now, and considering live shows are restarting across Europe now and people will start buying amplifiers again, the suppliers being cut off couldn't have come at a worse time...

 

[marchone]

Turns out almost overnight NOWHERE in the entire European continent or even the UK seems to have any Mesa stuff anymore. Plenty of places still seem to have Gibson stuff.

Anyone want to explain why this happened?

Supply shortages are keeping distribution in the US for now. It's covered in one of the Mesa Boogie mega threads.

 

[agedhorse]

Supply shortages are keeping distribution in the US for now. It's covered in one of the Mesa Boogie mega threads.

Correct, and it’s affecting product availability in the US as well as globally. I have discussed this in detail in the Subway mega-thread.

 

[jeff7bass]

Scared? Man, that may be the coolest guitar they ever made!

Except it's got a Schecter Bass head on it. doh

 

[jeff7bass]

Perhaps Gibson’s latest actions reveal its motivations? Dealers are apparently dropping Mesa because the dealer buy-in has reportedly tripled. Sounds like they think they’ve got a cash cow, and are hoping dealers will make big commitments. So far, Gibson has reduced its reach to customers. Good job!

That doesn't sound good.

 

[wazzel]

This acquisition made me reluctant to go Mesa. I have been bit three times (Heartfield, SWR and Genz-Benz) by Fender acquiring a company then discontinuing the line. Hope it works out long term. Mesa has nice gear.

 

[agedhorse]

This acquisition made me reluctant to go Mesa. I have been bit three times (Heartfield, SWR and Genz-Benz) by Fender acquiring a company then discontinuing the line. Hope it works out long term. Mesa has nice gear.

There is still factory level support for most Genz Benz products, this is something that Fender actively supported. They simply decided that it would make more sense to bring the Genz Benz technology into their own product lines, and I can’t say that was a bad decision (for them at least).

Mesa is an entirely new product category for Gibson, there’s nothing to fold it into.

 

[wazzel]

There is still factory level support for most Genz Benz products, this is something that Fender actively supported. They simply decided that it would make more sense to bring the Genz Benz technology into their own product lines, and I can’t say that was a bad decision (for them at least).

Mesa is an entirely new product category for Gibson, there’s nothing to fold it into.

I am sure my opinion has a bit of emotion to it. A couple years back I needed to get my shuttle serviced and had no luck at all finding a shop. Luckily it turned out to be a part I could source and replace myself. It was a royal pain in the butt so a little gun shy of it happening again.

 

[Al Kraft]

I am sure my opinion has a bit of emotion to it. A couple years back I needed to get my shuttle serviced and had no luck at all finding a shop. Luckily it turned out to be a part I could source and replace myself. It was a royal pain in the butt so a little gun shy of it happening again.

Next time you need anything Genz Benz serviced you now know exactly who your first call/PM should be to.

 

[agedhorse]

I am sure my opinion has a bit of emotion to it. A couple years back I needed to get my shuttle serviced and had no luck at all finding a shop. Luckily it turned out to be a part I could source and replace myself. It was a royal pain in the butt so a little gun shy of it happening again.

There's a (currently $85) flat rate service program that many folks here have used, 48 hour turnaround time and all parts are in stock. Covers all parts except the power module and the tube.

Up until a year or so ago, if you clicked on the service page link of the Genz Benz website (either through the KMC or Fender portals), the inquiries were automatically sent to my shop. When you search on Genz Benz service, many links return results to TalkBass (the world's largest bass guitar website by a mile) and I return PM requests promptly. Unfortunately, the Genz Benz website was retired during a recent security upgrade as there was no practical way to migrate it forward due to the age of the site software.

I think your comment does not entirely accurate portray the situation regarding Genz Benz, and SWR support was continued by Fender for 3 years (at least) past when they made the decision to shut that brand down. I have no idea about Hartfield.

 

[wazzel]

There's a (currently $85) flat rate service program that many folks here have used, 48 hour turnaround time and all parts are in stock. Covers all parts except the power module and the tube.

Up until a year or so ago, if you clicked on the service page link of the Genz Benz website (either through the KMC or Fender portals), the inquiries were automatically sent to my shop. When you search on Genz Benz service, many links return results to TalkBass (the world's largest bass guitar website by a mile) and I return PM requests promptly. Unfortunately, the Genz Benz website was retired during a recent security upgrade as there was no practical way to migrate it forward due to the age of the site software.

I think your comment does not entirely accurate portray the situation regarding Genz Benz, and SWR support was continued by Fender for 3 years (at least) past when they made the decision to shut that brand down. I have no idea about Hartfield.

I was lacking that information when I was looking for the repair.