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Gibson strikes again!

#221
pcake said:
so people with poor manual dexterity, vision issues, poor grip should pay for their own skin grafts (which virtually no one in the u.s. could afford to do) if they are truly injured by coffee that is hotter than many coffee machines will keep it at all? which is, of course, something that they wouldn't expect. most restaurants don't keep their coffee that hot because they want their customers to be able to drink it without blisters. mcdonalds, in fact, now keeps it cooler and it's still plenty hot, not merely warm.
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Plenty of restaurants keep their coffee at the same or even higher temperature. Feel free to read about it here:

Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants - Wikipedia

People with issues listed by you should be extremely careful when handling *anything*, let alone hot coffee. But this is a subject for a different conversation.

It's also unclear - at best - whether McDonald's ever actually lowered the required temperatures for coffee sold in their restaurants.

there is no reason to keep coffee that hot. there is no reason anyone with experiences with coffee makers at home, the office or doctor's office or coffee from other restaurants would expect it to be that hot.
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There are some opposing arguments coming from various sides, that can be found in the same article that I linked to.

I learned that coffee was dangerously hot when I was two years old, without getting burned. If I ever get to the point that I can't remember basic stuff like that, I hope that my kids and grandkids will have enough common sense to put me down in a painless manner.

Obviously, YMMV.
 
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#222
Mike Whitfield said:
That is my understanding as well. Another wrinkle is that Dean wasn't the first company to offer a V knockoff. Obviously Gibson isn't going to Kramer which they now own or Hamer (protected by Fender's legal muscle) but that makes suing Dean more difficult.

Adit: There's another defense here for Dean. When Gibson introduced the V and the Explorers, they were miserable failures, selling only a few dozen. (I think Wisebass pointed this out in one of these threads.) Gibson then abandoned both designs. It was only after Hamer, Kramer, Dean and some of the Japanese companies began producing and selling similar designs more than a decade later did Gibson re-introduce these models. Dean could make a very good case that the only reason Gibson has any sales of these models is because companies like Dean did a better job of building and marketing similar designs, allowing to piggyback on Dean's and Hamer's success.
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I'm not sure the latter would help Dean, but if Gibson didn't try to shut down Dean at that point Gibson's case would be weak, just as the EU indicated. Not shutting down production in Japan they'd get a pass on as it would have been more difficult.
 
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#223
-Asdfgh- said:
I'm not sure the latter would help Dean, but if Gibson didn't try to shut down Dean at that point Gibson's case would be weak, just as the EU indicated. Not shutting down production in Japan they'd get a pass on as it would have been more difficult.
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Yeah, I don't think they could have stopped production directly, but they could have stopped importation. The vast majority of Japanese production was bound for America and most of the rest for Europe, so stopping importation would practically have stopped production.
 
#227
chris4001asat said:
Yes, we got a cease and desist letter from Gibson
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Yes, but they sent it "collaboratively" as part of their "legacy issue" "ongoing legal dynamics" "marketing direction", rather than a vexatious nastygram intended to bully the small fish out of the market in order to monopolize something that they ceded the rights to back in the 70s.
 
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#229
Koshchei said:
Yes, but they sent it "collaboratively" as part of their "legacy issue" "ongoing legal dynamics" "marketing direction", rather than a vexatious nastygram intended to bully the small fish out of the market in order to monopolize something that they ceded the rights to back in the 70s.
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I mean, c'mon Reverend! Cool your jets. That letter really meant, "we want to work WITH you."

;)
 
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#230
I think owning shapes is far fetched.

However it seems cheesy and lazy to make a copy of a p bass and a j bass but with a somewhat different headstock. I'm happy to have an actual Fender rather than something that is a copy.

That said I realize the copies can be better or better value than the original.

Also I just realized my Guild Starfire is sort of a copy of a Gibson design but with improvements especially the pickups. Its a faithful reissue of the 1967 Guild bass. But I just think of an f hole hollow body as being as generic as a round hole acoustic guitar!

My two cents.
 
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#231
Koshchei said:
Yes, but they sent it "collaboratively" as part of their "legacy issue" "ongoing legal dynamics" "marketing direction", rather than a vexatious nastygram intended to bully the small fish out of the market in order to monopolize something that they ceded the rights to back in the 70s.
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Not the initial C and D. That was pretty clear.
 
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#232
chris4001asat said:
Not the initial C and D. That was pretty clear.
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Koshchei was being sarcastic, making fun of Gibson claiming to be "collaborative" when in fact they are just being predatory, using their size against smaller competitors like a bully. Gibson has ripped off plenty of other companies' ideas, especially with Epiphone, and Kramer which is now owned by Gibson, copied as liberally as anyone. Right now Gibson is being collaborative as the Mafia is collaborative. Or government.
 
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#234
Koshchei said:
I hope you didn't think I was being serious there; I was mocking JC's bloodless euphemisms-verging-on-lies doublespeak. I hope that the consumer backlash and legal system hand Gibson its ass on a platter for this travesty.
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It was more in reference to their follow up email, offering to "work with us". We got the C and D, and then a phone call the next day....if you still want to make it, we can work something out..... and then an email a couple hours later to help "persuade" us.
 
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#235
chris4001asat said:
It was more in reference to their follow up email, offering to "work with us". We got the C and D, and then a phone call the next day....if you still want to make it, we can work something out..... and then an email a couple hours later to help "persuade" us.
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"That's a pretty nice Flying V guitar you make... it'd be a pity if something were to happen to it".
 
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#240
SteveCS said:
In addition, I'm not aware of any feature of any commercially available electric guitar that, when used for it's intended purposes, can cause actual bodily harm...
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I am pretty sure coffee is not intended to be poured onto your crotch, though, although I have done so on multiple occasions, but typically at a safe temperature. There are plenty of ways unintended use of an electric guitar can hurt you, and I've managed to injure at least two other people this way, although amazingly only other people. People might argue, given my skills with guitar, I may have caused mental health damage to scores of people.
 
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