• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

gigging WITHOUT cabinet grill cloth

Sturdy grill coverings do provide protection when done right.

Exposed speakers are an invitation for damage, especially with pets, kids or simple accidents.
I do have a question though. Most of the time I'm not so serious with my stupid comments but not so now, and I think you are qualified to answer this question. How are some grille cloths and some metal grille covers acoustically transparent? Are they in any way affecting the sound? For instance, if you decided to cover a jet engine with a 'grille' to prevent birds and other debris from entering the engine you would decrease the efficiency of the engine. I guess I could have googled this but who knows who would have answered? How is it that the sound of a driver is totally unaffected by the cloth/grille?
 
BEF73EF1-D332-4352-AB24-BAB4C5156F6E.jpeg

It's definitely effected. It was stated earlier that hifi guys remove the grills on their speakers to prevent high frequency roll off. It's not just to see the speakers (as cool as that is) it's definitely a thing. That's the measurement naked (black), with grill cloth (red), with panty hose (blue) of a BG neo8 planar driver.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J-Bassomatic
View attachment 4402905
It's definitely effected. It was stated earlier that hifi guys remove the grills on their speakers to prevent high frequency roll off. It's not just to see the speakers (as cool as that is) it's definitely a thing. That's the measurement naked (black), with grill cloth (red), with panty hose (blue) of a BG neo8 planar driver.
What are the increments of the y-axis grid?

Anyway, if anything it looks like a grill is beneficial, helping smooth out a peaky high.
 
What are the increments of the y-axis grid?

Anyway, if anything it looks like a grill is beneficial, helping smooth out a peaky high.
5db.
The weird thing about the BG planars is that peak isn't as bad sounding as it looks. Usually any notching done to "cure" it sucks the life out of it. Also, these are installed in the kick panels of my car, so it's kinda beneficial for the bit of off axis position they're at.
 
Back in the early '71 while I was touring, I bought a Standell MCIIb/SAM30b piggy-back amp. It had a sparkly aquamarine grill cloth on the speaker cab and also on the head. And that entire grill cloth was held onto the cab with velcro tabs. I could quite literally grab the brushed aluminum frame of the grill cloth and pull the whole thing off exposing my two 15" speakers along with the 4 round ports mounted vertically next to the speakers. Was kind of cool to see, but the sparkly aquamarine grill cloth looked classier on it.



So I'm old school, which is actually where this bare speaker stuff came from, but I am not a fan of exposed speakers. Out of all your pictures the only ones I would consider would be the speakers with the metal covers and red background on the speaker mounting board - at least it's a little more cosmetically pleasing while offering some protection.
My first "real" amp was a Plush 1000ps with with the matching tuck and roll cabinet with 3 15 inch speakers.
It also featured the velcro tabs and our blasted lead singer requested that I take off the grill cloth. He then proceeded to poke his finger into the dust cap of the center speaker resulting in damage to that cone.
I still have the amp and speaker and the center cone is still unmatched 35 or 40 years later. Turns out they couldn't replace the chrome looking dust cap.
Leave your speakers protected and mistrust your lead singer if necessary.
View attachment 4402518[/QUOTE]
Funny you should show the Plush amps/cabs. There were two full stacks of Plush amps at the music store in Lincoln, NE when I bought my Standel. I remember thinking they were Kustom amps at first because I hadn't seen tuck and roll on any other amps/cabs at that point and then I read the brand as Plush. I tried out both stacks of Plush. I thought maybe something was wrong with the first one because it had two cabs stacked one on top of the other (don't remember if they were 212 cabs or 215) and they looked impressive but the sound was just too low. So I had him plug in the second double stack and it wasn't any better. Come to find out they had all of 100-watts rms, which was more than the Dual Showman I had come in looking for, but they just weren't loud enough to compete with the two Vox Super Beatle amps my guitarist and keys player had.

Was ready to give up for now when the salesman pointed out the smaller (single 215 cab plus head) Standel piggy-back amp. Tried that and almost shook everything off the walls. Gave me a good price and gave me $400 trade-in for my '66 blackface Fender Bassman amp (cost me $449 new in '66) and I walked out with it that afternoon and used it that night. Our keys player also bought a Fender Rhodes stage piano (Piano only without the amp you usually see attached to it), and the owner had to come to Little Bo's that night to see who the band was that dropped $2000 in his shop that afternoon. In today's money that's the same as casually coming into the shop and dropping $13,482. Salesman definitely made a nice commission off of our purchases.

That Plush gear really had a nice look though. Glad to hear you still have yours. If you're interested in trying to find a replacement or a repair, check with @agedhorse. He has a pretty good handle on available parts/pieces and substitutions on that era of speakers. Wish I still had my Standel, but it was stolen in 1976 along with my '65 Jazz.
 
Last edited:
View attachment 4402905
It's definitely effected. It was stated earlier that hifi guys remove the grills on their speakers to prevent high frequency roll off. It's not just to see the speakers (as cool as that is) it's definitely a thing. That's the measurement naked (black), with grill cloth (red), with panty hose (blue) of a BG neo8 planar driver.
That basically shows that there's no audio advantage to run a bass amp naked - not a lot of 10K frequencies we use. Yes we get high harmonics but the clarity from our comes much lower in the frequency range. One of the few things it's good for is to accent your string and fret noise. 10KHz is also great for sizzling cymbals and sharp snares.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bon viesta
We just shorten things out of economy ;)
Yeah we shorten words too, such as color for colour (we dispense with the "u") and aluminum for aluminium (we get rid of the extra "i"). Sort of a "cut to the chase" mentality perhaps or maybe we just can't get the King's English inflection out of "our" in colour and get tongue tied with the extra "i" in aluminium. :roflmao::roflmao::thumbsup:
 
  • Like
Reactions: agedhorse
They had two of those systems. While one was being used the other was getting trucked to the next show.

The Grateful Dead's Wall of Sound is worth reading up on. There's been a lot written, easy to find stuff online. It's a combination of ridiculous overkill and a kinda' clever attempt at solving some real problems with large-scale sound systems, and the background story features an array of wild men with big ideas and a lot of money at their disposal. Systems these days are a lot more efficient (edit: 'effective' was the word I was looking for) but also rely on technologies not available in the early 70s as well as a better understanding of how speakers work and how sound reinforcement works.

IIRC, the staging and scaffolding were leap-frogged, not the sound system.

That basically shows that there's no audio advantage to run a bass amp naked - not a lot of 10K frequencies we use. Yes we get high harmonics but the clarity from our comes much lower in the frequency range. One of the few things it's good for is to accent your string and fret noise. 10KHz is also great for sizzling cymbals and sharp snares.
Pretty much, and besides, who uses pantyhose for speaker grills. With the grill cloth, the difference is very small.
 
Pretty much, and besides, who uses pantyhose for speaker grills. With the grill cloth, the difference is very small.
Small or not, has an effect. As for bass cabs, probably no concerns, at least nothing a turn of the treble knob can't cure.

The panty hose was an experiment as I didn't have any black grill cloth handy, surprised at how restrictive it was considering how thin and see through they are.
 
View attachment 4402905
It's definitely effected. It was stated earlier that hifi guys remove the grills on their speakers to prevent high frequency roll off.
One would hope, though, that the designers of really high end hi fi enclosures know all about the effect of the grill cloth and voice the kit appropriately, so that all the hi fi guys are doing is introducing a quite artificial sparkle at the top. However I fear my ears are beyond noticing what's going on above about 12K anyway, so its largely of academic interest here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bon viesta
Small or not, has an effect. As for bass cabs, probably no concerns, at least nothing a turn of the treble knob can't cure.

The panty hose was an experiment as I didn't have any black grill cloth handy, surprised at how restrictive it was considering how thin and see through they are.
The density of the weave, and the materials themselves have impact.

The ~1dB difference between the grill cloth and nothing is well within the production tolerances of production drivers anyway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Al Kraft
That was the panty hose doing the most destruction.

Sure, fabric weaves and materials do effect response, shown in my graph

That's probably closer to 2dB for grill cloth, regardless, some people can hear differences in brands of capacitors. Me, not so much, but can pick up on a few dB's of level when matching tweeter to mid/woofer and left / right balance.

I just wanted to show real world measurements that grill cloth material will effect frequency response as this was questioned in previous posts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bon viesta
A double-blind test might show zero correlated effect. Many drivers have a +/-2dB consistency across production samples.

While grill cloth appears measurable, in practice it may not have any meaningful effect.
 
I don't mind full baffle metal grills, but those pie plate things look cheap and horrible. They remind me of all that garbage gear you see in pawn shops.

Agreed, years ago when I went to single grills on some PA cabinets and some homemade cabinets I bought these really cool grills that had a tight pattern with holes, rubber surround. You could either drill through the rubber surround into the cabinet or use the conventional speaker clips that attach to an embedded T-Nut.

For some reason these went away and now all you have are those ugly ass "waffle grill" things which look terrible.

The waffle grills are like the style people put on cheap boxes that go into your car, just look tawdry and cheap.

Analogeezer