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Giving up "modern" rig for old fliptop.

#21
It sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind but I feel you should think again before selling your (very nice and capable) rig.
I went to Berklee and gigged around the Boston area for a good while and it really comes down to practicality.
Sure you love the flip top but as others have stated it's not always the best choice for gigs and you also loose from a portability standpoint.
A nice old B15 could also possibly need maintainence from time to time. Unless you are handy with amps, as a student you don't need the hassle or expense if your amp developes a problem.
You also state access to different rigs but isnt it easier and more efficient to have your own rig tailored to your needs than to rely on the rigs of others.
There are many more points to consider but it's late and I'm ready for bed.
The B15 is a wonderful amp. But it would be a luxury at this point in your life to have one. You don't even know all the possibilities you may find in Boston and what kind of versatility you may need in a rig.
Do as you will and enjoy but if you are asking opinions I say your $ is probably better spent in other place.
If your not asking than please dis-regard all of the above.
Good luck!
 
#22
ljazz, you really shouldn't pick them up by the lid. The handle is more for flipping the head easier, which it really doesn't do. Of course, that leaves the question, "How do you pick it up?" Two words: bear hug ;)

But I'm not going to argue about its gig worthiness. I can use one because my bands aren't screaming loud onstage and we almost always have PA. Plus I have an extension cab that helps greatly with extra volume when needed. So it isn't for everyone, but if you're one who can use it, there's nothing like it!
 
#24
I use a Burriss preamp which is based on the B-15 circuit but has 12ax7's instead of the 6sl7's so that it can fit in a single spce rack. I use a QSC RMX850 bridged into a single 15" or
12" cab and I get in the ballpark tonewise. I did a/b this preamp against a 60's B-15. It was close but I think some of the magic lies in the 6sl7 tubes in the B-15.
 
#25
The basic points are laid out well above. I retired my beloved '64 B-15N from giging 20-some years ago. Moving to the big city you're going to have lots of gigging and jamming opportunities and the b-15 is one of the worst amps for that. Not loud enough, heavy, fragile, awkward... but ime the tone can't be achieved any other way.

I like to think of myself as a minimalist but the bottom line with the B15 is that you need two amps if you'll be doing any gigging.
 
#26
I went to Berklee as well. There were lots and lots of stairs at Berklee to get to studios and ensemble rehearsal rooms, and not a lot of provided amps there that worked at the time. Perhaps that has changed and they have used my tuition money to install escalators. Parking a car/loading gear near Berklee is wretched. I'd really suggest scoping it out before you abandon convenience, or ideally do both. I have a rig for Boston gigs that's all about tone, and one thats Cab/T friendly.

Enjoy the schooling too, its a wild place.
 
#28
BUT...lately I have been really diving into Motown and complex finger-style grooving(ie Jamerson, Babbit etc) and can't help falling in love with that fat, warm tone that they all got using(of course) the Ampeg fliptop amps.

well, first of all i also believe that the b15 is the greatest bass amp ever made by Anyone. but what you're really hearing on those records is bass direct, not a b15. the b was used as a monitor, but ocassionally some of it's signal was mixed in too. a P with labella flats straight into a homemade tube di panel with i think UTC or maybe Cinemag transformers. the bass, all the guitars and electric piano were always plugged into this multi input di panel and the musicians monitored themselves thru a single altec/urei monitor mounted up on the wall. there are no guitar amps on of those classic detroit tracks to my knowledge, they were all direct too. bob ohlssohn mixed and mastered a ton of detroit era motown stuff, he'd be the guy to ask for definitive informaton. he posts here often:

Invalid Link Removed
 
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#30
2n0q0pt.jpg




I like how every time someone asks a question about a tube amp it turns into a discussion of what solid state amp he should get. IMO the posts discussing the practical difficulties of having a heavy old tube combo as your only amp do have a point, though.

Is there any reason why you must have this amp now? I understand you can't afford to buy one now without selling your current setup. Why not take some time, save up, and buy one when you can? You might find it convenient to have a light, portable modern rig (even if the sound isn't your ultimate favorite tone) for grab n go situations where perfect tone isn't a must - like TripleDouble's description of Berklee.

I'm not going to tell you that you can get a pedal or computer to sound like that classic tube amp. The B15 gives some of the best bass tone ever, and there's a reason people still play them. Don't pay too much attention to the vast solid state conspiracy here at Talkbass. There are zealots who are on a crusade to convert everyone to their way of thinking and won't rest until we're all using their chosen amp solution. The few people like JimmyM who can rationally discuss the merits of both tube and SS will be more helpful.
 
#31
As a B-15 owner I would add to all the previous posts, this thought:

The B-15 isn't going to approximate any other amp sound very well. On the other hand, your epifani could easily come "close enough" to producing a b-15 inspired tone. Once you have other musicians playing, and take into account the room acoustics, the subtle difference between a new amp eq'ed to sound like a b-15, and the real thing, becomes hard to appreciate.

Just to be clear, I am (like you) not into pedals and I'm also usually not into "approximations". As I stated above, I own a B-15. But on a gig or at a jam, the subtle difference between the real thing and a versatile newer amp eq'ed to come close to the ampeg's sound, is lost on everyone but you, and it may be lost on you too, if you could do a blind test.

This simple reality, combined with the B-15's heavy awkward weight, and low volume, make the fliptop a recording/bedroom amp to die for, but one I would never gig with again. IMHO You would be seriously limiting yourself by exclusively playing through a B-15.

Finally, you are going to be exposed to all kinds of musical situations in Boston, you may find yourself wanting to play using a sound that the B-15 can't do (lots of bottom, for example). If I were you, I'd stick with what you have (spend some time with your eyes closed trying to get the tone you like using your amp's eq), or purchase an amp with flexibility.

My .02
 
#32
pgk said:
but what you're really hearing on those records is bass direct, not a b15.
Click to expand...

that's what I've heard too and from what I recall, it's what the guys from the Standing in the Shadows of Motown video also mentioned (especially how they all shared one monitor in the studio, hehe)...

although there was all that other equipment that played a certain role in the motown sound, I would say getting a nice Precision should do... one with a rosewood fretboard, put some flats on it, do a proper setup (high action) and you're good to go... if your current amp and cab wont suit you, replace it then, not before...

and remember, getting an old Fender is also not necessary - precisions recorded on old motown records were only a few years old at most ;) I think a nice copy will suffice :)

but if you're just trying to have an excuse to buy that Ampeg, go for it if you really want it :) although, if your budget is really that tight, luxuries like this are not the best choice ;)
 
#35
Hmm..Calf. to Boston. Welcome. I'd first buy a good winter coat!:)
Too bad you weren't already in town. There were 2 vintage Ampegs on Craigslist for what I thought was extremely cheap. A B-15 from the 60's and a SB-12 as well. Gone through buy a very reputable tube pro tech. ah...sorry to bum you out.

I agree you need to get here and scope out your day to day situation first. As far as hauling stuff to class and everything that goes with it. Tiny parking spots, streets, stairways...etc. Add to that frozen snow banks, ice patches. Again welcome:)

Are you expecting to use this in school and leave it between classes? If so are you sure that's safe from a tampering/security stand point? If not then picture yourself lumping this thing through pedestrian gridlock everyday.

Hey I love that tone too! I wouldn't talk you out of it. But make sure the situation will tolerate it first since you can only afford to own one amp at a time. If you can't live without it but decide to find that tone elsewhere try the Ampeg B-100r. Real nice sound. I know a small shop you could get to by trolley in Boston that has a new USA made one you can chek out. It makes any P sound like heaven.
http://www.ampeg.com/products/diamondbluebass/b100r/index.html
 
#36
braydensharrar said:
I have been doing a lot of thinking about my rig lately and can't help but feel that it might be time for a change. I currently own (and enjoy) a small and portable rig consisting of an Epifani UL-502 and a NYC T112 cabinet. I love the tone, the portability is great and it's always been my favorite amp. BUT...lately I have been really diving into Motown and complex finger-style grooving(ie Jamerson, Babbit etc) and can't help falling in love with that fat, warm tone that they all got using(of course) the Ampeg fliptop amps.
Click to expand...

Jamerson also used a Kustom amp for larger venues.
 
#37
Les Izmor said:
The B-15 isn't going to approximate any other amp sound very well. On the other hand, your epifani could easily come "close enough" to producing a b-15 inspired tone.

Finally, you are going to be exposed to all kinds of musical situations in Boston, you may find yourself wanting to play using a sound that the B-15 can't do (lots of bottom, for example). If I were you, I'd stick with what you have (spend some time with your eyes closed trying to get the tone you like using your amp's eq), or purchase an amp with flexibility.
Click to expand...

Great advice.

Freddels said:
Babbitt's still playing motown stuff but he's playing Phil Jones amps now.
Click to expand...

There you go.
 
#38
When the right one at the right price comes up for sale near me I'll eventually get one to stay in my living room- they are the just so sweet to play through and match my tonal goals at the volume they put out.

For now an Eden WT-550 through a bag End 15" and a VT pedal gets me amazingly close, and I can get the breakup for Motown sounds at very low volumes, useful in the evenings when my sleepy village wants to stay that way.

Live it's SVT all the way, or on a small stage with PA support the aforementioned rig into the board is all I will ever need.

I've tried many out, and they sounded anywhere from plain ordinary to orgasmic. I think the state of repair and of the tubes in a given one can make all the difference, maybe accounting some of the way for the different experiences related here and elsewhere.

$1000 is a nice price, but be sure you won't have to sink another wodge of cash into it to get it to spec (i.e. cap job, maybe some tubes, is the OP transformer undamaged?, etc. A lot of these have been seriously modded and/or abused for years, IME).

If you can honestly get by with leaving it in your room and have other realistic handy gig-worthy options, I say go for it- you'll have a bedroom and recording amp for the rest of your life that will become more and more expensive to buy as the years go by.

OT, I have a friend who swears by the B-18s, and says they are his favorite. I've never heard one myself.
 
#39
braydensharrar said:
I will be moving to Boston in January and starting my studies(film scoring) at Berklee. It would be nice to have both setups, but with tuition and city living coming up, that is just not an option.
Click to expand...


Not to start a whole 'nuther discussion, but you mention recording and film scoring and a tight budget. Now, I don't know what you have already for you're own recording rig, but if you're going into scoring and will be composing/producing/engineering your own stuff in a DAW, you need lots of flexibility and fast options, and the best front-end you can afford--for ALL instruments. Speaking as a professional TV/film composer myself, I'd spend the money you're gonna lay out on an amp like that on the best mic pre you can get, or more and better software(all virtual instruments are not created equal, that's for sure, ESPECIALLY orchestral libraries), not to mention the fastest most bad-ass computer your budget will allow, etc. That way you're not putting so much money into something just bass-specific. As a composer, when you're racing against a deadline, trust me, 9 times outta 10, you're gonna DI that bass and move on to trying to make your virtual violin part sound believable! That is, if that score even has electric bass in it . . .
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE a nice B15--when I do bass sessions out here I'm lucky as there's no shortage of them in these parts. But for composing and scoring, the bass amp is pretty low on the list of necessities. (and not to suggest software is better than the real thing but, the Ampeg SVX plugin has saved my arse many times, for example: " what we really need here is a grinding SVT kinda sound rather than a Jamerson vibe, and oh yeah, we need your stems uploaded in 40 minutes" :) And it's 3 a.m.
 
#40
pgk said:
BUT...lately I have been really diving into Motown and complex finger-style grooving(ie Jamerson, Babbit etc) and can't help falling in love with that fat, warm tone that they all got using(of course) the Ampeg fliptop amps.

well, first of all i also believe that the b15 is the greatest bass amp ever made by Anyone. but what you're really hearing on those records is bass direct, not a b15. the b was used as a monitor, but ocassionally some of it's signal was mixed in too. a P with labella flats straight into a homemade tube di panel with i think UTC or maybe Cinemag transformers. the bass, all the guitars and electric piano were always plugged into this multi input di panel and the musicians monitored themselves thru a single altec/urei monitor mounted up on the wall. there are no guitar amps on of those classic detroit tracks to my knowledge, they were all direct too. bob ohlssohn mixed and mastered a ton of detroit era motown stuff, he'd be the guy to ask for definitive informaton. he posts here often:

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...
While all of that is accurate, the sound they got out of Jamerson in the studio is heavily based on his B-15 sound. When you plug into one, you can hear it instantly. But forgetting Jamerson, there are enough hugely famous tracks recorded with B-15's out there where it's still highly desirable. But honestly, I wouldn't get one if it has to be your only amp.
 

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