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Giving up "modern" rig for old fliptop.

braydensharrar

braydensharrar

Feb 21, 2009
874
56
36
California
#1
I have been doing a lot of thinking about my rig lately and can't help but feel that it might be time for a change. I currently own (and enjoy) a small and portable rig consisting of an Epifani UL-502 and a NYC T112 cabinet. I love the tone, the portability is great and it's always been my favorite amp. BUT...lately I have been really diving into Motown and complex finger-style grooving(ie Jamerson, Babbit etc) and can't help falling in love with that fat, warm tone that they all got using(of course) the Ampeg fliptop amps.

Some more background info:
I will be moving to Boston in January and starting my studies(film scoring) at Berklee. So I will have access to a lot of different amplifiers and I will be using my own amp pretty much just in my apartment to record as well as practice. I have been getting further away from(although I do still love it) slap style playing and the more "modern" form of electric playing. I play upright as well and that is my jazz voice. Electric wise, I have always gravitated towards pocket playing and solid grooves. It would be nice to have both setups, but with tuition and city living coming up, that is just not an option.

So my question is: what are your opinions on giving up the Epifani setup for an older Ampeg B-15?

Thank you for all opinions and advice!

~B
 
#5
being a vintage nut, if you want an original fliptop, personally, i would never try to talk you out of acquiring one, or even suggest an alternative. they are what they are and, for me, nothing is quite as magical as playing thru one. i've yet to find a pedal or modeling program that captures its true essence.


that said, i have gotten some great vintage ampeg sounds out of my sansamp PSA-1, but it still isn't quite the same vibe.
its kinda like trying to make a really good violin sound like a stradivarius with eq, i'e' not going to happen.

2 cents......
 
#6
If it's for home use, why the heck not? That being the case, you might want to look at the SB-12, which has marvelous tone but is not loud enough to be practical on most gigs. That would be perfect for practicing and recording in an apartment.

I play out a lot, so I I'm very glad to have a micro-head and 1x12 rig that's reliable, versatile, portable and powerful. (And I have no complaints whatsoever, trying to play Motown thru it. The passive tone knob, amp EQ and tweeter attenuator are your friends. ;))

I can't deny it, though: I would love to someday try a B-15.
 
#7
Like I said, I am in no way a pedal guy. I stay completely away from them.

And as much I like Fender basses, I don't like their amps. I think the new TV series sounds pretty good, but they are pretty pricey for what i would assume is a foreign assembled amp. Price wise they are pretty much up there with the fliptops.

I was really just asking around to see how limited people think this would be. I am not really looking for a cheap alternative, I've always believed in doing things right if you're going to do them at all.

I am also considering parting with my J for a P!

Thanks again!

~B
 
#8
In all my years it seems most people use the flip top in the studio. I secret weapon of sorts for more people than you can think. I know I've used it in the studio as well.
The other side is playing shows and on the road and I don't see or hear much of that happening. It seems a lot of people don't consider it loud enough. It all depends on your situation of course.
If it is all that will do than by all means go for it!

Didn't the newer ones have extension cabs for them? I'm scratching way back in the memory banks for that.... dunno.:confused:

These guys ought to have a wealth of decision making info:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=437266

Part II
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=529238
 
#11
Have you thought of merely adding a 15" cab to the 12? This might get you pretty close (along with some EQ, and maybe a nice outboard compressor) to the sound you're looking for, and you will still have a nice portable "gig-rig" (not to mention, save some money!). B-15's seem kind of limited, considering the dough they command on the vintage market these days IMO. Glowing tubes DO make a nice nightlight, though OTOH.:)
 
#12
I have played 15's and really do not like then with a modern SS amplifier. I don't think the quick attack of the solid state meshes well with the slow response of the 15. They have always been a bit too boomy for my taste.

With a low wattage tube amp, it's a whole different story. And I love it.

No amount of EQ can make up for the warmth tube amps give you.

Thanks!

~B
 
#13
B15's are rad, but the only time I've seen them played live is with Madeline Peyroux's bass player at the Moore in Seattle, and I've seen jazz guitar players use them. I've seen the reissues played out live too and they sound pretty good. If you're doing studio stuff mostly, then go for it. If you have to haul your gear all over town gigging, stick with something with more ba!!s and flexibility.

I don't play in bands that have the luxury of having gigs with sound guys that have the best mics/taste/consideration for me and my tone, so I use a sansamp and get to control how I sound for the most part. But there's no substitute for the real thing, so if you want it, get it - quirks and all.
 
#14
I have used my 67 B15 at gigs with a blues band and the tone is killer.
I also have an original extension cab that I need to use at times.
The extention cab really helps with the volume.
This is not an amp to use in a LOUD rock band unless there is PA support . I think that getting one is not a waste of money. It is what it is. A B15 and everything that means. You'll always get your money back out of it and it will never go out of style. I do have larger amps for different situations . I'm fortunate in that reguards. I haven't had a chance to use my B15 for a while now but I have no plans on parting with it.
But when I do, there's nothing like it.
 
#16
I mentioned in my op that having both isn't an option. I am moving to Boston(city living/expenses) and starting school at Berklee(tuition/books), so funds in the near future will go to that. Plus I won't have a need for both as I will have access to various gig-capable amps. However, from what I have seen at Berklee so far bass wise and amp wise, access to a Fliptop is unlikely. Plus I want my own:)

I love my Epifani stuff, it's just becoming less consistent with my sound and style of playing.
 
#17
If your heart is set on it and you realize you'll have something not very portable and usually not loud enough for gigs, then buy it.

Personally I'm not enamoured by the old Ampeg fliptops or any of the old vintage amps. I've owned a couple of fliptops, one a B15 and the other a B 18 back in the 60s. They were a bear to haul around, never had enough headroom and only sounded good on small jazz trio things and big band gigs playing standards. But, not all that good. Out in the audience there was nothing special about them For recording I used the B 15 head with a home made 12" speaker cabinet and it recorded nicely enough. The 15 cabinet just was too muddy and I'd end up eq-ing bottom end out- and I like a big fat bass sound.

For that "vintage" sound I did much better with a home made 60 watt all tube Dynakit amp and a 15" cabinet with a JBL. Much more volume (although still not a lot by modern standards) and a bit easier to cart around. I think the head was about 40 lbs. That recorded nicely too.

For another great vintage type sound the solid state Polytone Mini Brute 12 was fantastic. Small and light and it sounded as good recording as the B15 with a 12" cabinet. More volume too and it would take an extension cabinet. I think the one I had in the late 70s was 60 watts. I did a lot of small gigs and recording with that amp, used it for practice at home and as a dressing room amp on the road. The Minibrute 15 is a good one too. I think the new ones are 120 watts.

But that's me and what I like. I'm so weird I didn't like the Acoustic 18" folded horn amps when they came out. I played though a pair for years simply because they were the only amp loud enough for the big gigs I was playing back then.

These days I use a GK MB 150S which, believe it or not, can get a sound very close to the old B 15 if you want (and play a Fender P with flatwounds), is very light (26 lbs) and has way more volume than the Ampeg. That might suit what you want too.

If you believe the bass gear magazines you'd think that we were all in heaven way back then playing B 15s and blissing out on the sound while throngs of bass lovers sat at our feet. Not true at all. We couldn't wait for something better to come along. They were okay when they first came out, but bass amps hadn't yet got any attention and bass players didn't count much. The flip tops were much more popular on the East side of the country where they were easier to find in stores.
 
#18
Well it may not take your head off but a finer sounding amp has never been made IMHO. OK, maybe the original SVT, but that's it. However, you do have to take into consideration what you plan to do with it...I gig with mine a lot, but my bands aren't what you would call rock and roll loud. We're more of a medium volume. So you do need to take that into consideration. I don't think I could have my only amp be the B-15.

So what I might do if I were you is split the difference between the B-15 and SVT and look for a V4B and a vintage sounding 115 cab. It'll probably be cheaper, and it'll get a lot louder. That's my take on it as a longtime B-15 gigger. Now if all you plan to do is practice at your dorm and do small-medium jazz jams, then go for the Fliptop.
 
#19
Yeah do it.

Sounds great for exactly what you want to use it for. ... particularly if you go for the Precision. Flipper + P is hard to beat.

One thing: Give some careful thought to a Mesa Walkabout. It will give you a great vintage tone with the ability to put out more gig worthy volume.
 
#20
I love my old '66 B15. It's one of the most incredible sounding amps I've ever played through, and I'll probably never part with it. It's due for a bunch of work, and I'll probably get around to it this winter. For recording, it's one of the most beautiful sounding pieces you can put into the signal chain...... it's no wonder it's a "secret weapon" in the studio.

Now, all of that said, the amp is not very fun to gig with. Certainly not plug and play. I know we'll have Jimmy jumping in here shortly to refute this (no disrespect intended), but trust me, it's a bear. It's heavy, bulky and unwieldy. It's old, and feels fragile. When you pick it up by the lid, your always afraid those chinsy latches are gonna let go. And when you get her all set, you're going to have to mic it up, because it's not loud enough, and you certainly don't want to go 100% DI, 'cuz you just busted your tail dragging it out to the gig. I did this for several years, and it's just not worth it.

I've found over the years that the most important thing to achieving that smokin' old vintage tone is my hands. My attack, how I mute, the notes I play, and my rhythm. Next is the strings I use..... I spend a lot of time and dough matching up the strings to the bass for the perfect sound, and then I wear 'em out. Next is the bass. And lastly, the amp. I'm going to get "my tone" through pretty much whatever amp I'm using. Because of that, my GK rig (especially with just the one 12) sounds more similar to my B15 than not.

I assure you.... you'll be back here asking about other amps in a year or so, because you'll find gigging the b15 not all it's cracked up to be. Keep yor Epifani rig, and keep an eye out for a great deal on an old fliptop for satisfying that vintage GAS and tone.
 

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