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Double Bass going in point of the thumb in TP

Les Fret

Les Fret

Sep 9, 2009
7,213
6,926
nextlevel-slapbass.com
#1
Sometimes I am confused about whether I should use the G or the F# as the going in point of thumb, or use no thumb at all. Especially with notes circling around the octave g or a

Let me illustrate this with two simple examples (all on the g string starting from the middle d):

1) d e f# g a g f# e d

You can play this as:
1 1 4 1 3 1 4 1 (so no thumb) or 1 4 T 1 3 1 T 4 1 (so thumb going in on F#)

2) d e f# g a b a g f# e d

You can play this as:
1 4 1 2 1 3 1 2 1 4 1 (no thumb) or 1 1 4 T 1 3 1 T 4 1 1 (thumb going in on G) or even 1 4 T 1 2 3 2 1 T 4 1 (thumb going in on F#)

What do you prefer? and do think it is better to be consistent in the going in point (like in the Simandl books) or to be more flexible?
 
#3
You should never let the technique dictate the music(which I think you might be), so it's best to be flexible so you can do what you truly want to in the most musical way.

Also, fingerings are dependent on context in the music. How fast are those notes? Are they all equal rhythmic value? Where(if any) are the slurs and could I shift inside a slur? Look at your thumb as being able to play anywhere like Emilio said, but also realize that you won't be able to get as strong of a vibrato out of it as you will your first or second fingers.
 
#6
Les Fret said:
of course, I know all this but sometimes it hard to choose because there are many possibilities. All can have their benefits.

In the case of these examples I mean equal notes without slurs. But it is just an example.
Click to expand...

If these were played at a slow tempo, I think 1 (transition to thumb after the d) 1 3 1 3 2 1 (transition back)4 1 would be a strong fingering.

I think it's important to realize that when you're playing around the middle register(specifically the position with your first finger on the e and 4th finger on the f sharp on the g string) with your thumb around the crook of the neck, it opens up your hand in a weak way and you shouldn't limit yourself to playing thumb position only at the octave(or M7) and above.
 
#7
JtheJazzMan said:
I dont think in terms of a definite transition "point" but rather a flexible transition zone in which you can make the transition depending on the phrase youre playing.
Click to expand...

That's what I think too. But in the 2nd Simandl book he always goes in with the thumb on the G or G# (in case the scale has an G# or Ab), never on other notes. Even though it is not always on a musical (or technical) logical point. Many other books advocate this principle.

I guess it is a good to learn it that way and when you have mastered that you can be more flexible and make your own choices..
 
#8
1) d e f# g a g f# e d

Assuming the d is starting on the beat: How about
1/1 4 (or 3)/1 3/2 1/4 1


2) d e f# g a b g f# e d

WAIT! You have 10 notes and 11 fingerings. Do you want another a between the b and g??


Tom Gale
 
#9
as others have said here, the context is what is important. there are instances where you should avoid using the thumb at all because it would deaden any expression in the line. if i were playing the passage you listed above trying to avoid the thumb, i would probably do something like 1 - 1 4 - 1 3 - 2 1 - 4 1 (basically the same as Tom suggests above)

if expression is less of an issue then i would probably play 1 4 - T 1 3 1 T - 4 1 or just play T 1 3 T 1 T 3 1 T starting on the D string (really depends on the music that comes before the example)

make your fingering serve the music. to do that, you have to be flexible. simandl is a good start for most people, but eventually you find that it is inadequate for a lot of music. it is good for showing you how to be organized with a fingering system, but the problem is that it is not a very sophisticated system, and lacks musical solutions to a good number of problems you encounter in the repertoire. sounds like you're on the right track though.
 
#10
and regarding the point where you switch to thumb - anyone know figment III? carter certainly assumes that thumb on Ab (semitone above open G) on the D string is totally acceptable. a lot of the big orchestra excerpts are commonly played using thumb below (sometimes well below) the octave harmonic. it is totally standard practice, and you should get comfortable with the idea of using your thumb anywhere you might need to.
 
#12
Les Fret said:
yes, I forgot the a.
Click to expand...

so we have 2) d e f# g a b a g f# e d

if its rapid, t (on the D octave) 1 2 t 1 2 1 t 2 1 t. - no shifts.
Its best if the first d in on the off-beat.

More lyrical is 1 (on the g) 4/1 2/1 2 (or 3) 1/2 1/ 4 1.

A basic rule to try to follow is - if the notes 'go together', try not to separate them with a shift.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com :bassist:
 
#14
Les Fret said:
ok, thanks

I guess when you give a piece of 4 measures to 10 arbitrary professional bass players each one of them will have a total different fingering.


You bet! You have to add in the speed and rhythm patterns, etc., involved. Just a series of notes could be about anything. I believe if you have a command of the closed hand tech (1,2,4),
open hand (1,2,3,4) and the thumb positions both above and below the octave, you can meet any musical challenge.
Tom Gale
Click to expand...
 

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