Going into battle vs. distorted guitars

[jfh2424]

I’ve found that there is no use trying to compete with detuned distorted guitars on a sonic level.

Discussion with said guitarists is the answer. See if they actually want to hear you and if they are open to modifying their sound. Otherwise, it’s a volume competition and everyone sounds horrible.

I’ve found that if the guitarists don’t want to hear me, it’s best to leave them to find an other bassist. Someone more suited to that type of volume competition thing.

 

[eastcoasteddie]

When I used to play with actual people, and a pair of Marshall half-stacks, I used my Stingray and L2500 through a Hartke 3500 and 410XL/115 - never a problem.

 

[Tommygun_ted]

All of my basses are dual humbucker or a single humbucker. One of my guitarists, who I've played with for years, rocks a Gibson les paul through an orange into a 4x12 cab. Very big low end. I generally set my EQ more mids heavy and I'm a fan of the sound.

 

[DoctorZee]

When I used to play with actual people, and a pair of Marshall half-stacks, I used my Stingray and L2500 through a Hartke 3500 and 410XL/115 - never a problem.

I used to have that head. It was a love/hate relationship, but more love than hate.

 

[Bass1218]

Could always ask them to turn down a bit...lol..ya right.lol

 

[Lobster11]

This is a really great thought that I need to investigate.

By the way, make sure the guitarists do the same thing. The most common culprit behind volume wars is when everyone stands in front of their own amp, which is on the floor, so nobody can hear themselves as well as they can hear the others. So then someone turns up to hear himself better, and then someone else does, etc. It's worth the band spending some time figuring out how to arrange all of the amps so everyone has speakers pointed at their own ears.

Also, now that you mentioned that you have another cab I'd consider bringing it, even if you only used one as a stand for the other. (But as long as you have two, you might as well use them both. Can't hurt anything other than your back!)

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Any pickup style can work, I've had really great results with my old jazz bass. Jack up your mids, and either go clean or use a dirt pedal that gives you some nice bite, not something that turns your tone into sludge. Sludge can be cool, but it's for when you're okay with just thickening up the guitars' sound.

 

[Runlikegregg]

mids.
I like a P for it's mid pumping ability

 

[Slough Feg Bass]

ask them to turn their cabinets around, makes it easier to tame the noise.
I use a J bass with some high mids boosted a little, and back off the bass on the amp, and crank up the volume!

 

[Watchootognbout]

No soapbar humbuckers?

 

[bumperbass]

Your sound doesn't start with pickups. Strings are where the sound starts.
I don't know how flats are gonna break through a stack or 4. I'd bite the bullet and try a set of rounds.
If you're lucky, you'll find a set that suits you before you spend $500.
IMO, D'addario nickles, GHS Boomers, and DR Lo-riders are a good 'ground zero' starting point.

 

[CapnSev]

Some configurations are easier than others to dial in, but all of them can accomplish the task. You just need to carve out your own little sonic piece of real estate with some eq.

 

[bearfoot]

I'd consider trying HH, and perhaps a heavy use of octave effects, up and down. Also LPF, HPF, and compression as needed.

I don't know if distortion would be good in the bass also for this.

Heavy music with low-EQ'd guitars is, IMO, a lost cause for bass. In live shows, on recordings, in many cases it may as well not even be there.

 

[Bass V]

get something equipped with a nasty old overwound mudbucker and amps that can handle.
after you've lifted buildings off their foundations the audience will know who the boss is lol

 

[Smith357]

More Power!!! grunt grunt grunt

 

[waveman]

Man all sorts of places to start.

What sort of rig are you using beyond the bass? Amp setting can make a difference. To cut through two distorted guitars, you need a clean tone. Also, try turning the bass knob down some and make up with it using the master volume.

 

[gh0st42]

I'll second what a couple other people said.

Your best weapon in this battle is communication, collaboration, and compromise.

Get together separately with the guitar players and talk it out and do some experimenting.

Many rock/metal Guitar players go for Scooped mids for distorted tone. Blues players might have a bigger mid spike, instead of cutting. Get a good EQ (Parametric if possible), and have them play full tilt.

Start cranking some mid frequencies until you get more audible in the mix. Doesn't matter if it sounds "good" you are just trying to find the frequencies with some "space". It's much easier with a Parametric as you can set it at a medium to narrow width, and sweep back and forth until you find the sweet spot.

Once you find the right frequencies, work with them to widen the gap around those frequencies by cutting out a little more than they normally would from their tone.

Now boost yours in that area, and play with the EQ to make it sound good, while using that spectrum. Cut out some additional frequencies to give the Guitars more room in their primary spectrum.

It's all about making room for each other, so your individual tones can shine through the others gaps.

It may sound like crap when played solo, but will mesh together into a crushing wall of awesome when playing together, and you won't be stepping all over each others tone and making for a muddy mess.

I've also heard of people boosting and cutting alternate Graphic EQ freqs. If your Guitar players cuts that slider, boost yours, and vice versa. Fill in each others gaps, so to speak.

 

[Wasnex]

I voted the premise is flawed .

My first bit of advice is get some good ear plugs and accept what it means to wear them. They will degrade the sound, but IMHO it's worth protecting your hearing.

As far as battling with guitars. Your premise is wrong because this is a war that no one really wins. If you simply resort to sheer volume, IMHO everyone loses, including potential patrons.

A big part of the problem is everyone wants to hear themselves about 6-10dB louder than everyone else. Unfortunately there is not enough distance or isolation between players on the typical bandstand for everyone to get the desired 6-10dB, so volume wars erupt. One players turns up enough to get the desired 6-10dB and suddenly no one else can here. So someone else turns up to get their 6-10dB, and then the original guy can't hear, so a cycle of reciprocal volume tweaking ensues.

Keep in mind the low frequencies are pretty much omni directional so really cranking the bass tends to get on everyones' nerves. The frequencies of guitar tend to be fairly directional, but many guitar players prefer open back cabs, which are designed to spread the sound around.

Rather than trying to compete with the guitars, I suggest focusing on setting up and adjusting your rig so you can hear better without having to turn it up so much. The ear plugs are going to cut some of the highs you hear, so in order for your bass to sound natural you will need to roll on some high frequencies in your sound. If you leave you cab on the ground and stand close to it, the upper mids and highs are just going to shoot out in front of the cab below ear level. So in order to hear those frequencies, you need to get some of you speakers up in the air and aim them at your ears.

If you set up your rig so you can hear it easier, you don't have to be as loud. If you're not as loud, it won't cause the guitar players to turn up even more, so IMHO it's win, win .

The most powerful amp I own is a SVT8-Pro that is rated for 2,500W at 2 ohms. With the right speakers I could probably pummel a few guitar players into submission, but I would be abusing myself as well. Better to use an approach that allows me to hear without resorting to dropping a bomb .

Anyway this is how I approach the problem. It doesn't work for everyone due to philosophical differences, so good luck .

 

[Emperor Elite]

If your J bass isn't cutting it with a wall of distorted guitars, then try backing off the bridge pickup 20%. This will add a ton of mids that will thicken up the sound and help fill in more sonic space to cut through the mix. You will give up a little punch though. The trade-off is punchiness for thickness and mids. I've had very good luck with this setup in a hard classic rock band with two distorted les Pauls.

 

[gh0st42]

Heavy music with low-EQ'd guitars is, IMO, a lost cause for bass. In live shows, on recordings, in many cases it may as well not even be there.

Nah, Been there and done that. Played in a band with two LOUD down tuned 7 string players years back (Korn was super popular at the time... LOL), and never had an issue being heard.

It's more difficult for sure, but that type of band setting will almost always have a huge open hole in guitar tone in the mids. Boost the crap out of mids in that hole, and you'll be plenty audible.

It'll probably sound "honky" solo on the bass, but you can get plenty of cut and punch with some smart EQing.