I think also that Elvin did get louder with everything else after the Coltrane years, and especially as he aged. I like to play mostly acoustic but have become a bit lazy in this regard lately. Meaning that my default is acoustic, but if it makes no sense dynamically / musically and makes my or everybody elses life overly hard I`ll let the dogmas go. Sometimes my playing acoustically is involuntary, I don`t even have a driving lisence, and if there`s no ride or amp / PA where I`m playing then I`ll obviously go without. At least for me, balancing my setup with the physical approach is everything. I need my action high enough and need to hit hard enough, not too little or too much of either. Otherwise I`ll mess my health, my feel, the flow. Also, one-dimensional loud is just that. Elvin could get louder than anything, but his subtle was more subtle than anyone else`s.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Going No-Pickup
- Thread starter Peck_Time
- Start date
I heard Elvin many times with his band that included Dave Liebmann Steve Grossman and Gene Perla on bass. Gene always had an amp. I heard his trio with Joe Farrell and Jimmy Garrison; the only time I saw Garrison live. Jimmy had Spiros, a polytone pickup, and an Ampeg B15 and was very loud and very good.
When I was coming up the two most dominant models, at least where I was, were Mile's band with Tony Williams and Trane's with Elvin. I didn't get to see Trane's classic band live, I did see him with Rashid Ali, but I did see Miles with Tony, and saw Elvin a lot just after he left Trane. Those guys played LOUD. Not a lot of tasty chamber jazz there. The esthetic was much more towards African music where the drums dominate and drive, not tastefully tinkle and accent.
That's something I'd never heard. It would be wonderful if there were pictures anywhere where Jimmy was playing with the Ampeg. I know Oscar Pettiford, Charles Mingus and Richard Davis were featured in Ampeg literature.
Last edited:
Which is why you need to practice with a metronome with all the right hand attacks you use.
Acoustic all the way or as acoustic as possible! But, depending on the room and the people on the bandstand, a little help from the amp isn't deadly.
The thing is, though, when a soundperson sees the amp, they might think "line out, easy"... that's why
I try to always bring a good mic for the PA/FOH. And insist it's used!!! Not the old "let's take the DI just in case", lol!
The thing is, though, when a soundperson sees the amp, they might think "line out, easy"... that's why
I try to always bring a good mic for the PA/FOH. And insist it's used!!! Not the old "let's take the DI just in case", lol!
I did my first gig this last weekend with no amp (I usually jam/rehearse without). At our regular restaurant spot. We had been talking about keeping the volume down after getting complaints at a jam we host. Had the amp all set up. Did the first tune without it and by the end I was grinning ear to ear. Did that with the gut bass. I find it a little more difficult to keep up a projecting, big sound with the heavy steel bass. Still working on it.
No amp when possible is the best.
No amp when possible is the best.
That's a very good point. If you haven't played in groups, that performed acoustically and frankly, these days few have, at least here in St. Louis they don't really know how to work in Quintet, where the piano, and bass that aren't amplified.
I can get a very acoustic sound out of my amplifier.
"The Amp's a Harsh Mistress".
If your Time/Feel/Intonation/Lines....SUCK(S), then using an amp will simply increase the size of "The Turd In The Punchbowl". (tm)
If you're able to hear, and be heard, then don't use an amp... If you feel like you need to be "Volumetrically Involved", (tm), then, by all means, use an amp. Your bandmates will either Love, or Hate, you for it.
I don't see or hear what all the fuss is about...an amp simply magnifies the players strengths AND weaknesses.
(FYI - I've played both With and Without an Amp.)
Finally, I once "saw" Robert Hurst Jr., and Jeff "Tain" Watts in Branford Marsalis' trio, in a medium-sized Theatre in Pasadena, CA about 20+ years ago... I "saw" Robert Hurst, but did not hear a note that he played in the first half - (see "Jeff 'Tain' Watts".)
He placed a mic in front of his bass after intermission. Mo' Better Amplified, IMO.
Thanks.
If your Time/Feel/Intonation/Lines....SUCK(S), then using an amp will simply increase the size of "The Turd In The Punchbowl". (tm)
If you're able to hear, and be heard, then don't use an amp... If you feel like you need to be "Volumetrically Involved", (tm), then, by all means, use an amp. Your bandmates will either Love, or Hate, you for it.
I don't see or hear what all the fuss is about...an amp simply magnifies the players strengths AND weaknesses.
(FYI - I've played both With and Without an Amp.)
Finally, I once "saw" Robert Hurst Jr., and Jeff "Tain" Watts in Branford Marsalis' trio, in a medium-sized Theatre in Pasadena, CA about 20+ years ago... I "saw" Robert Hurst, but did not hear a note that he played in the first half - (see "Jeff 'Tain' Watts".)
He placed a mic in front of his bass after intermission. Mo' Better Amplified, IMO.
Thanks.
Earl
Supporting Member
Ron Carter, on his latest Facebook live thing said bass players who play without an amp are the "bane of my existence" haha.
I play acoustically when I can (which I can sometimes). But I gave up trying to be a hero a long time ago. I was reading about guys in the '30s playing big ballrooms with a big band and no amp, and I said "how hard can it be?" At least for a relatively small bar gig. But famous last words. There's quite a noise level to overcome, not just your bandmates but the patrons, and by the end my right hand was cooked. I'd just as soon use a tasteful small amp, of which there are some very good ones.
Earl
Supporting Member
Exactly. He said that bass players who don't amplify are a "cloud over the bass scene".
Starting at 6:40
Context is everything and his comment seemed more nuanced than that. I took his meaning to be against absolutism more than not using an amp.
All power to those who love playing acoustically!
But....
.....being able to get a usable sound from an amp is a very useful skill to have. IMO the key is not to try and get a "perfect" tone or reproduce your acoustic sound exactly, but to be open to getting the best compromise that works in the given environment. It may not be as fun or sonically pure, but in some contexts (e.g. large or loud ensembles, large or open-air venues) you'll need to be amped to be heard.
But....
.....being able to get a usable sound from an amp is a very useful skill to have. IMO the key is not to try and get a "perfect" tone or reproduce your acoustic sound exactly, but to be open to getting the best compromise that works in the given environment. It may not be as fun or sonically pure, but in some contexts (e.g. large or loud ensembles, large or open-air venues) you'll need to be amped to be heard.
Earl
Supporting Member
Which then would be ironic considering HIS absolutism on always using one haha. I think I recall a back and forth that he had with Neal Miner a number of years ago about how bass players should not use gut strings. To me he has pretty strong ideas about what bass players should and should not be doing, and rightly so I guess because he is Ron Carter after all. I have learned a lot from his playing but I endeavor to make my bass sound the way I hear it in my head and not worry about what others think who hear differently.
Ron's books are treasured sources to me, but I do take his statements about amps to be very relative to the genre and venues that he routinely plays. I wouldn't expect him to try to persuade an orchestral double bass player or section to use amps and I suspect other primarily acoustic genre and venues would be similarly respected. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but it seems only reasonable.
Listening to the samples of Ron playing the requested EADG exercise in the snippet above tells a huge amount about why and where he prefers using amps.
Listening to the samples of Ron playing the requested EADG exercise in the snippet above tells a huge amount about why and where he prefers using amps.
