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Going to the Studio; Best Mic Combo

SplinteredSkull

SplinteredSkull

Guest
Jul 20, 2013
937
487
Roanoke, VA
#1
In the next month or 2 our band is going into the recording studio to do a demo. This is my first time recording in the studio and I have been exploring ways to get the best sound from my bass. Firstly, I want to take a DI signal from my head. I have the option of pre or post EQ, and I'm thinking post but I can always see. The next thing I run into, and what this thread is about, is mikes. Now this has been beaten to death I know, but I have read up a little and checked out some mikes I like the sound of. I'm thinking about having 2 mikes set-up to capture the full sound of my cab+head. I was looking at doing a low frequency mic off-axis and then a more full-range mic in the center of the cone (lengths set depending on mic and sound). The microphones that have peaked my interest are the EV RE20, Sennheiser MD421, Shure SM57, Audix D6, and AKG P2.

Now would having the DI+kick mic+(Sennheiser or EV) be overkill on the low end? I like both the Sennheiser and EV, with the EV being a bit warmer, but I just wasn't sure on how well they capture the sound all the way up and down. I know that if I'm reduced to using a SM57 I want something that can pick the bottom end back up. Therefore:

1. Do I need a low freq mic with the Sennheiser and EV?
2. Is it overkill to do DI+kick+full-range?
3. Suggestions on other mikes or ones that work better in your opinion?
 
#2
Amp? Music style? Other instruments?

For the DI, IMO anyway, skip the amp and go completely DI through something super clean. Then use ONE mic on your cab to capture mods and highs, dynamic or condenser, whatever is handy. If your sound is primarily clean solid state through a tweeter or full range cab, imo, it's better to just DI. If you're using a tube head/cab and rely on the over drive, then run DI plus Mic.
 
#4
SplinteredSkull said:
1. Do I need a low freq mic with the Sennheiser and EV?
2. Is it overkill to do DI+kick+full-range?
3. Suggestions on other mikes or ones that work better in your opinion?
Click to expand...

1. no, those are full range mics, and are also good choices for bass drum. The mics that aren't quite full range like a 57/58 tend to be hand held designs (but not all hand held designs roll off low end above the bass bottom octave).
2. probably
3. I'm not sure what your options are, but a few that I like in various price ranges are the Blue Baby Bottle, any of the Blue mics with a B7 capsule, Neumann U47 Fet or similar, AT 4047
 
#5
teleharmonium said:
1. no, those are full range mics, and are also good choices for bass drum. The mics that aren't quite full range like a 57/58 tend to be hand held designs (but not all hand held designs roll off low end above the bass bottom octave).
2. probably
3. I'm not sure what your options are, but a few that I like in various price ranges are the Blue Baby Bottle, any of the Blue mics with a B7 capsule, Neumann U47 Fet or similar, AT 4047
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm actually glad I could get away with one mic. So I can try DI+full range. So should I use the amp DI pre or post EQ? I figured post because then it would mostly match the sound coming from my cab. And I'll check out those other mikes; thanks for your input
 
#7
Yea i would check to see what the engineer is supplying. He may have a great preamp/DI to get a high quality input signal and then use plug in amp simulation to help you get the sound you like and need for the song, but definitely check with the engineer on this.
 
#8
SplinteredSkull said:
Okay, I'm actually glad I could get away with one mic. So I can try DI+full range. So should I use the amp DI pre or post EQ? I figured post because then it would mostly match the sound coming from my cab. And I'll check out those other mikes; thanks for your input
Click to expand...


I would suggest taking it pre EQ. Console/outboard hardware or DAW EQ as a rule is better quality than EQ circuits built into amps, and that way it will go through one less EQ overall (which is almost always for the best unless we are talking about a nice tube EQ), with those EQ decisions being made relative to what is needed for the mix.

Of course, that depends on competence of the engineer. It's important to trust them and let them use the best possible signal chain, but then again anybody can call themselves an engineer, and in some cases they may not make good decisions, or you may have different tastes, which can be about familiarity with the style as much as about personal preference.

If I was working with a questionable engineer I might send them a signal as close as possible to my normal sound in order to increase the odds that something resembling it will be in the final result.

When you're recording DI plus mic there is no need to EQ the DI in a way that works best for your cabs or to keep them similar to each other. You want them to be different in a complementary way. The usual method is to take the bottom from the DI and the mids and top from the amp. And this way if there is a problem with amp noise you have a backup.
 
#9
The way I see it, the engineer knows how to get a sound better than you do, and certainly knows his equipment better. Talk to him and see what he says, and try a few things.

Kind of like going to the doctor and telling him what is wrong with you. I have clients come in my office, and then tell me how to handle their cases (I am an attorney). I then ask them why they came to me if they know what to do - usually works.
 
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#10
I just wanted an idea of what I wanted to do to get a sound I wanted before I went in there. I have heard just the DI signal coming from my bass, and others, and it's not what I what I sound like EQ'd and through cab. And a lot of sound guys around here will just DI you and be done with it. We also have limited time to do things so I wanted to be able to figure it out with the engineer quicker. One of my bandmates is taking engineering lessons at the place we're recording and he's reporting back today on some of the mikes and equipment available. I also know what I want to sound like, which the engineer may or may not really care about. And thank you teleharmonium for answering the question about DI
 
#11
I understand, but if he is not interested in working on a tone, telling him what mic to use is not going to help. Can you find out who the engineer is going to be? Maybe speak to him beforehand, maybe at another session during a break (bring coffee - always appreciated), tell him what you want, and your gear. This way when you come in he is prepared. You also will have a better idea of where he is coming from.

My last time in the studio was on the quick, but before we laid anything down we made sure the sounds on every instrument were what we wanted, and what he felt would lead to a good mix.
 
#12
buldog5151bass said:
I understand, but if he is not interested in working on a tone, telling him what mic to use is not going to help. Can you find out who the engineer is going to be? Maybe speak to him beforehand, maybe at another session during a break (bring coffee - always appreciated), tell him what you want, and your gear. This way when you come in he is prepared. You also will have a better idea of where he is coming from.

My last time in the studio was on the quick, but before we laid anything down we made sure the sounds on every instrument were what we wanted, and what he felt would lead to a good mix.
Click to expand...

I'll talk to my bandmate and see if there's a time I can come in and talk to him. We may all want to go (if they haven't discussed it already). Thank you for the advice :thumbsup:
 
#13
As someone that runs a small studio, I can tell you that having a band show up and each member telling the engineer what they want to sound like individually will at best be a waste of time, and at worse alienate you from said engineer. The MUCH preferable approach is to give the engineer a copy of an album in a similar genre to yours that you'd like to emulate, to some degree, from a production standpoint (individual tones, mix, etc.).
 
#15
silky smoove said:
As someone that runs a small studio, I can tell you that having a band show up and each member telling the engineer what they want to sound like individually will at best be a waste of time, and at worse alienate you from said engineer. The MUCH preferable approach is to give the engineer a copy of an album in a similar genre to yours that you'd like to emulate, to some degree, from a production standpoint (individual tones, mix, etc.).
Click to expand...

If we did that then I'd hand him a RATM album, the drummer a RHCP, and the guitarists Blink-182 and Green Day. We all come from totally different backgrounds. I never really intended to play punk, but our sounds (live) mesh great.
 
#17
Check out the Shure SM7. I'd run that, or the EV RE20, or Beyer M201.
Take a DI signal (whether for your amp or before it) and blend those two signals to taste.

Also, NEVER use a kick mic! it's about useless for bass. If you're looking to get solid lows, that's what the DI signal is for. A kick mic scoops out the mids, and there's no guarantee that the other mic or DI will mix well with it and fill in the mids appropriately. Best bet is to not scoop out any frequencies before they get to the board.
 
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#18
buldog5151bass said:
I'mno pro, but I've never met anengineer who didn't want to talk shop about his studio, or answer questions if he wasn't being interrupted.
Click to expand...

I don't want the point of this thread to seem like I'm just going to go in and tell him what to do. I just want to formulate an idea of what might be ideal for me so I can discuss it with the engineer and we can work to get the most optimum sound. I think most engineers just expect you to take what you get around here because the musician has no prior knowledge. I'd like a back and forth exchange so I can learn more, and so he can get the best sound for what I'm going for.

TrevorOfDoom said:
Check out the Shure SM7. I'd run that, or the EV RE20, or Beyer M201.
Take a DI signal (whether for your amp or before it) and blend those two signals to taste.
Click to expand...

The DI+Mic sounds optimum so far. From walkthroughs, demos, etc. I dig the frequency emphasis that the EV RE20 and Sennheiser have.
 
#19
The way I see it, it all depends on the quality of engineer and his personal style. I've done some recording of bands over the years and my personal way of tracking bass goes like this:

I allow the player to use his equipment because that's what he is used to. He knows his sound better than anyone. I'll mic the cab using one mic, usually a 421. I really like the warmth you get from that one. Place it off center from the cone to prevent the "poof" as I call it.

Not in front of the amp split the signal with a good di to a separate track this will give you a raw bass sound coming directly from the instrument. This is usually always a brighter, more defined tone. You'll really hear the string and fingers on this. The best part about this is that now you have a raw signal to remap later on if need be.

Blend the two together to get the best of both worlds.


But again that all depends on the engineer and the time he has to mix
 

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