Just to add to the confusion. Boulder Creek had a 23-inch scale bass with Thunderguts on it. The rep told me they had it at NAMM to test the market. I don't see this bass on their website, so they're clearly not committed yet. But it looks pretty cool and could be another option. This one was fretless. I don't remember if there was a soundhole on the top like on their other basses, but that would certainly help us hear ourselves a little better.