Good gauges for a 5 string

[J03YW]

Hey, I have an odd request. I'm looking into buying a Fender Modern Player Jazz Bass 5 string and I'd like some strings that are lighter on the EADG side but support tunings as low as drop G# as well. I'm most likely going to keep this bass in either BEADG, AEADG, ADGCF, or drop G#. I'm okay with it being heavier for BEADG but it CAN NOT be floppy on the lower two strings, because I'm looking for brightness suitable for metal but also that perfect steady low rumble like on Daft Punk's Random Access Memories.

 

[ixlramp]

Link Removed
You can use this chart to approximate the tensions of any brand of roundwound, to find what tension you like, and to design a set for multiple tunings.
I recommend the .158 for B-G#, it will be heavy 50 pounds at B and light tension 35 pounds (but not floppy) at G#. A .166 will be too tight at B and might break.
Circle K Strings of USA and Pyramid strings of Germany do .158 / .160 singles.
To avoid extremes of tension you need to design your set to have equal tensions in your theoretical average tuning, which is A/A# D#G#C#F#.
Following this method i suggest .158 .112 .082 .061 .045.

 

[Jon Moody]

You can use this chart to approximate the tensions of any brand of roundwound...

Please don't do that. While materials and manufacturing is similar, there will be a noticeable difference in tensions from brand to brand, and you're going to be setting yourself up for frustration when things don't pan out.

To the OP, you will be better suited with finding a set of strings that has a larger core wire than others in its respective gauge. That's going to help keep a good feel and clarity at drop tunings.

 

[iiipopes]

Please don't do that. While materials and manufacturing is similar, there will be a noticeable difference in tensions from brand to brand, and you're going to be setting yourself up for frustration when things don't pan out.

I confess I was one that did that. It was because it used to be that was all we had: one particular reference. But now that the companies, one by one, are developing their own tension charts, including GHS, I don't have to do the extrapolations anymore. Thanks.

 

[ixlramp]

Please don't do that. While materials and manufacturing is similar, there will be a noticeable difference in tensions from brand to brand.

Yes and that's why i said approximate There is no other tension chart for gauges .145+ so the choice is to be completely in the dark and guess, or use the chart to get close and then perfect by feel and trial and error. I have been doing this for 10 years and tension charts have been invaluable for getting close to an ideal set. They've also liberated me from having to accept string manufacturers usually unplayable and old fashioned choices of gauges.
So GHS how would the OP get anywhere with designing a set for multiple sub-contra tunings without that tension chart?
Also i would recommend avoiding strings with deliberately thick, stiff cores such as DR DDT, it's better to use a super flexible string of slightly higher gauge and tension, this is why Circle K Strings get such good reviews.

 

[Jon Moody]

You can use this chart to approximate the tensions of any brand of roundwound...

I'm reposting this, because this was where I had my beef; your very blanket comment. And especially since Circle K makes their strings differently than most (it's not a secret; it's in that guide right upfront), it's going to be quite different.

I do agree that you can use it to approximate (or guess) at other tensions, but the problem is that for people unlike yourself (that are new to the possibility of creating their own set), they assume that one chart "rules them all," and we know that's not true. Which is why I'm busting tail to get the GHS tension chart for ALL of our bass strings, so at the very least, we can stop this approximation/guesswork.

Also i would recommend avoiding strings with deliberately thick, stiff cores such as DR DDT, it's better to use a super flexible string of slightly higher gauge and tension, this is why Circle K Strings get such good reviews.

A bigger core doesn't have to be as deliberately thick as the DDT ones are, to make a huge difference in tension and feel.

 

[Jim Nazium]

...I'm busting tail to get the GHS tension chart for ALL of our bass strings, so at the very least, we can stop this approximation/guesswork.

You will have a leg up on most of your competition, and provide a valuable service to the bass playing community, if you do this.

 

[Jon Moody]

You will have a leg up on most of your competition, and provide a valuable service to the bass playing community, if you do this.

There's no "if;" I'm handling it personally, and swearing at my calculator in the process. I have 7 of our sets laid out in individual tension as well as in our pre-packaged sets. A couple of the smaller sets are needing to be done, but I have the "main" sets finalized.

 

[ixlramp]

Which is why I'm busting tail to get the GHS tension chart for ALL of our bass strings, so at the very least, we can stop this approximation/guesswork.

Ah now that is cool good luck!
I can assure the OP the set i designed will work immeasurably better than a pre-packaged 'one set does all drop tunings' heavy core set.

 

[ixlramp]

GHS Official, what we would really like, if possible, is unit weights for each string in pounds per linear inch, as is stated on the D'Addario and CKS charts. This gives us the raw data for the tension calculation. I guess you must already have the unit weights if you are creating a tension chart ...
Also a tension chart should have all sharp/flat notes included, that's where the D'Addario one could be better.

 

[Jon Moody]

GHS Official, what we would really like, if possible, is unit weights for each string in pounds per linear inch, as is stated on the D'Addario and CKS charts. This gives us the raw data for the tension calculation. I guess you must already have the unit weights if you are creating a tension chart ...
Also a tension chart should have all sharp/flat notes included, that's where the D'Addario one could be better.

I've been using the Circle K and D'Addario charts as a reference, so ours will have the same information as the other ones. I'm trying to lay it out so that it will read a bit more naturally; with 15 years of graphic design experience prior to starting here, old habits die hard, you know?

Let me look into having all chromatic notes included; may not be feasible at this point, but could easily be done at a later time for a revision.

I've also taken as many of our pre-packaged sets and down-tuned them as well, to see which ones actually will work with a minimum of fuss, and which ones are just far too unstable (in terms of tone and feel) at those low tunings. Surprisingly, our medium set of Brite Flats kicks butt; handled Drop B no problem.

 

[iiipopes]

Don't overwork yourself: if you're going to include the chromatic semitones, in order, as necessary, I would recommmend first Bb and then Eb for the horn players, and then the others as you can get to them in subsequent editions.

 

[ixlramp]

I'm reposting this, because this was where I had my beef; your very blanket comment.
[...]
I do agree that you can use it to approximate (or guess) at other tensions, but the problem is that for people unlike yourself (that are new to the possibility of creating their own set), they assume that one chart "rules them all," and we know that's not true.

Certainly i agree that my statement was a little lazy and sloppy, i should have added 'approximate to within 5-10% depending on brand' and 'the perceived tension of brands is not taken into account with these charts of actual scientific tension'.
The biggest difference i have seen in actual tension between 2 brands of nickelplated roundwound is between D'Addario and CKS with a roughly 5%+ difference, so i have assumed the approximation for other brands could be as high as 5-10%. However when designing a set with relative tensions in mind the difference in actual and perceived tension between brands partly cancels out, the only major approximation is the absolute tension.
Respect for what you are doing

 

[Jon Moody]

Certainly i agree that my statement was a little lazy and sloppy, i should have added 'approximate to within 5-10% depending on brand' and 'the perceived tension of brands is not taken into account with these charts of actual scientific tension'.
The biggest difference in actual tension between 2 brands of nickelplated roundwound is between D'Addario and CKS with a roughly 5% difference, so i have assumed the approximation for other brands could be as high as 5-10%. However when designing a set with relative tensions in mind the difference in actual and perceived tension between brands partly cancels out, the only major approximation is the absolute tension.
Respect for what you are doing

Only issue is if one string is 5-10% higher and another is 5-10% lower, you realistically have a 10-20% difference in that set already. That was why I wanted to include in our charts, the tensions of our pre-packaged sets (in addition to singles). Our sets aren't bad out of the pack; not perfect, but not bad.
Like you already stated (very well, I may add), "use the chart to get close and then perfect by feel and trial and error."

Because as scientific as this is, numbers on paper don't play instruments. Get the best set for YOU, and if that's a pre-packaged set, great! If it's handpicking your gauges (whether that leads to a truly balanced tension set or no), that's great too! But have ALL the information at hand, not just one piece.

 

[ixlramp]

Only issue is if one string is 5-10% higher and another is 5-10% lower, you realistically have a 10-20% difference in that set already

Luckily for us that's highly unlikely because the error is down to the differences betwee brands, when designing a set within one brand's particular type of string the construction will be very roughly consistent across the gauges, so the string to string error will be much smaller than 10-20%.
I actually designed my 6 string bass in fifths set by feel, trial and error, and did the tension maths afterwards to see what i liked, it felt balanced but in fact the tension fell by a third from low to high (over a 3 octave open string range though). So now i can do the maths to design a set knowing what 'tension profile' i prefer.
Its using science but to recreate sets developed by intuition, feel and playability alone.

 

[Jon Moody]

Its using science but to recreate sets developed by intuition, feel and playability alone.

Right; you're using both. Which is what NEEDS to happen.

 

[JustForSport]

One of the commonly misused terms (on many threads) is "tension" to refer to flexibility as opposed to reference 'tensile (as is lengthwise) stress'.
This seems to be misused often in reference to round core vs hex core 'feel'.
I've no idea where to begin to use correct terminology, but if someone has an idea,
it sure would save alot of misinterpretation of intent.
Also, a reference to perceived balanced flexibility relative to tuned tension would be helpful.
(may be asking too much).

 

[ixlramp]

^ Yes. Perhaps 'scientific tension' and 'perceived tension'.
Perceived balanced tension may be somewhat subjective, but i find the most balanced feel and playability comes from a drop of roughly 2-3 pounds per string (in fourths tuning) from low to high.