Good Mixing console for a GIGGING act 24+ channels

[MNAirHead]

I'm a fan of some of either 2 schools of thought... new light weight board + powered cabs (and/or subs)... OR go the other way with power amps and components.

There are many companies that have stuff in either class.. most answers you will receive probably have not compared all of them next to eachother.

You never said what you were playing.. why you needed so many channels.. what size venues etc.

 

[Munjibunga]

I'm a fan of some of either 2 schools of thought... new light weight board + powered cabs (and/or subs)... OR go the other way with power amps and components.

There are many companies that have stuff in either class.. most answers you will receive probably have not compared all of them next to eachother.

You never said what you were playing.. why you needed so many channels.. what size venues etc.

Always buy more channels than you think you need. The number of inputs expands to meet the channels available.

 

[projectMalamute]

I've been VERY satisfied with my Allen & Heath MixWiz3 16:2. Granted, it's not a 24-channel board, but the sound quality is head and shoulders above my old Yamaha mixer, which I used to think sounded OK. After buying the A&H, I've noticed that the channel pre-amps on most other "affordable" mixers sound comparatively veiled/unclear. The only thing I miss is having "groups," but I wanted a 19"-wide mixer, and losing groups was a worthwhile trade-off. If the sound quality of my MixWiz can be generalized to include other A&H mixers, I doubt you'll be disappointed by an Allen & Heath board.

Those things do sound really good. Crazy good for the money. If they sold a 24x4x2 mixer with those micamps and EQ you would pretty much have the perfect cheap mixer.

 

[Jazzdogg]

Those things do sound really good. Crazy good for the money. If they sold a 24x4x2 mixer with those micamps and EQ you would pretty much have the perfect cheap mixer.

For what I paid, I can't believe the quality of the sound; heck, even our conga player noticed the improvement!

 

[kalle74]

Where did you see all these Midas desks in for repairs? Mine's been fine for over 7 years.

Most of the sound reinforcement companies I work for. They´ve all been subject to rather rough handling (200+ days a year on each, dusty conditions etc...). Seems you´ve handled yours a lot better. The squealing EQ will be fixed free even if warranty period is gone, I learned the other day (that´s good customer service)... Don´t get me wrong, they are fine desks for their size, but I really dislike the 60mm faders, and lack of auxes for most of my purposes.

Still, I like the smaller footprint of digital for bands that own and carry their own sound reinforcement (no outboard racks and stuff to worry about). A band I do FOH for, bought a LS9-16, and it has cut our soundchecks down to 30min (including set-up), thanks to recall abilities. And this band 22 inputs, 5 wedge mixes + stereo in-ears + efx... While I´m not crazy about the LS9´s pres (many desks rate better, f.ex. Digico, bigger Midas etc), they´re quite OK for the price.

I don´t like digital for festivals that are "line-check w/headphones only" and 20 minute change-overs...

 

[GregShadoan]

I see a few Midas consoles on tour come through the room I work. Most recently a Ratt rental H3K. I asked the sound guy what was wrong with it. He pointed out a half dozen little things, bad phantom on ch X, Pan pot intermentent, etc.. Actully I dont think I have EVER seen a large frame midas without some kind of failure. The little midas boards are way to much money for what they do. But the say Midas on them. Midas is still a touring standard for those who choose them over digital, which is becoming very rare these days.
As for real festival work, warped, radio tour etc.. its 90 percent digital. Maybe, maybe the headliner will have an XL4, but the low life openers will all use the same desks.

For the money Soundcraft is still the best for the buck. The ONLY A&H I would touch are the new ILives. The little ones break and are extremly fragile IMO, except the mixwiz.
THe new little Presonus is also a great little digital desk. Sound better than the equivilent yammy IMO.

 

[Ryan L.]

For what I paid, I can't believe the quality of the sound; heck, even our conga player noticed the improvement!

I just picked up a new one of these (MixWiz3) for my band as well, and the difference between it and the Yamaha board it replaced was night and day. Very nice unit for under a grand.

 

[jackall237]

Don't you dare, ever touch Behringer anything... Ever...

 

[Ryan L.]

Don't you dare, ever touch Behringer anything... Ever...

+1. One of the bands I was in tried using a Behringer board (24 channel) a few years ago. All the channels worked for a total of two gigs. Then, slowly but surely, we started losing them. I think when we ditched it it had 4 or 5 channels that were dead.

 

[jackall237]

+1. One of the bands I was in tried using a Behringer board (24 channel) a few years ago. All the channels worked for a total of two gigs. Then, slowly but surely, we started losing them. I think when we ditched it it had 4 or 5 channels that were dead.

I went to a show recently with Behringer processing, amps, and board. They were pushing 130db at FOH and it sounded like I was right next to an ambulance.. Ear plugs were used that night.
If I had my gear, I could've easily pushed 120 and not walked out with a ring one..
Behringer makes me sick..

 

[Ryan L.]

I went to a show recently with Behringer processing, amps, and board. They were pushing 130db at FOH and it sounded like I was right next to an ambulance.. Ear plugs were used that night.
If I had my gear, I could've easily pushed 120 and not walked out with a ring one..
Behringer makes me sick..

Yeah, we had a few other Behringer items at the same time as the board. All were replaced soon after the board went bye-bye. Definitely left a bad taste in my mouth for anything with the "Behringer" name on it..........

 

[GregShadoan]

I'd use Behringer before I would use anything Mackie. I have alot of experience with Behringer gear, for christ sakes the **** is everywhere, and it works just fine. Don't blame the gear for the nut behind the wheel. 130 db??? I'm just saying...... 10 db is ALOT!!!
If I can't do house mix at 100, I wont mix. It's just flat out stoopid. Plus your endangering yourself and others.
If bought a 16 channel Behringer mix board for an install, in there 2 years. Took it out. Every knob channel buss works just fine. Still have it.

Great little light weight gizmo.

 

[georgestrings]

The Soundcraft LX7 is an alright little mixer, that's what we have at the bar I work at right now. Micamps sound good, EQ is good, you can run the busses really hot and the sound doesn't go to hell. A couple things suck about it: 1. the aux sends are post-EQ, which you really don't want for your monitor mixes.


Look at the Mackie 8 bus. You can get 24 or 32 channel versions for right around a grand these days in good shape. Good solid mixer and anyone who has ever done any sound at all will be immediately comfortable on it.

A couple of problems in this post - 1st off, you're wrong about the LX7's aux sends - this is directly from their feature list:

"6 aux sends, 4 of which are pre/post switchable"


2nd, I wouldn't recommend Mackie over Soundcraft or Allen&Heath - Mackie's stuff doesn't sound nearly as good, and has a craptacular reliability track record... IMO, Mackie isn't much better than Behringer - just more expensive...


- georgestrings

 

[projectMalamute]

A couple of problems in this post - 1st off, you're wrong about the LX7's aux sends - this is directly from their feature list:

"6 aux sends, 4 of which are pre/post switchable"


2nd, I wouldn't recommend Mackie over Soundcraft or Allen&Heath - Mackie's stuff doesn't sound nearly as good, and has a craptacular reliability track record... IMO, Mackie isn't much better than Behringer - just more expensive...


- georgestrings

They are switchable pre/post fader. They are not switchable pre/post EQ. Those are two different things.

Mackies are fine. Thousands of people use those things every night, if you can't get a mix together on a Mackie 8 bus throwing more money at the problem isn't going to help.

 

[Ryan L.]

I'd use Behringer before I would use anything Mackie. I have alot of experience with Behringer gear, for christ sakes the **** is everywhere, and it works just fine. Don't blame the gear for the nut behind the wheel. 130 db??? I'm just saying...... 10 db is ALOT!!!
If I can't do house mix at 100, I wont mix. It's just flat out stoopid. Plus your endangering yourself and others.
If bought a 16 channel Behringer mix board for an install, in there 2 years. Took it out. Every knob channel buss works just fine. Still have it.

Great little light weight gizmo.

Well, in our case, it didn't hold up. And it had nothing to do with us not knowing how to use it, it just flat out broke.

 

[modulusman]

I'd use Behringer before I would use anything Mackie. I have alot of experience with Behringer gear, for christ sakes the **** is everywhere, and it works just fine. Don't blame the gear for the nut behind the wheel. 130 db??? I'm just saying...... 10 db is ALOT!!!
If I can't do house mix at 100, I wont mix. It's just flat out stoopid. Plus your endangering yourself and others.
If bought a 16 channel Behringer mix board for an install, in there 2 years. Took it out. Every knob channel buss works just fine. Still have it.

Great little light weight gizmo.

Wow, still working after 2 years. You should contact guinness book of world records. As far as mackie is concerned my Onyx 1640 is probably a better board than anything behringer makes. Uli must think so since it inspired him to name his mixers xenyx.

 

[georgestrings]

They are switchable pre/post fader. They are not switchable pre/post EQ. Those are two different things.

Mackies are fine. Thousands of people use those things every night, if you can't get a mix together on a Mackie 8 bus throwing more money at the problem isn't going to help.

OK, I'll play along - how common is it for aux sends to be "pre EQ", and why would that be necessary in any way??? After all, you're talking about using those aux sends for monitors - which typically have separate EQs for each mix... So, even if the channel EQ is set a bit "wildly", any problems downstream can be taken care of with the monitor EQ...

Also, Mackies are not on the same level as Soundcraft or Allen&Heath - Soundcraft and A&H are widely used by sound pros, whereas, Mackies are typically used by - we'll say, "somewhat less than pros"... In fact, it's not uncommon for Mackies to be specifically barred from use on many tour riders - they've earned a rep as being unreliable... I've also found Mackies mic pre's to be somewhat cold and sterile when compared to those by Soundcraft and A&H...



- georgestrings

 

[modulusman]

Georgestrings, Have you ever worked with an Onyx board? they sound alot better than the sr or vlzs. I own a soundcraft lx7ii and an Onyx 1640 and both sound great. The Onyx actually has some better features than the Soundcraft. All auxes are individually switchable for pre/post. A 4 ladder led for monitoring your levels on every channel. A bnc lamp connector. Every channel has switchable phantom power. A built in talkback mike plus the firewire option all for less money. Mackie as a company is having problems so I would be leary about buying from them now. AS far as tour riders I Imagine you will not find any lx7s being acceptable either. Soundcraft GBs and MHs but those cost $$.

 

[projectMalamute]

OK, I'll play along - how common is it for aux sends to be "pre EQ", and why would that be necessary in any way??? After all, you're talking about using those aux sends for monitors - which typically have separate EQs for each mix... So, even if the channel EQ is set a bit "wildly", any problems downstream can be taken care of with the monitor EQ...

You clearly have never done a lot of live sound. You don't want all the crap you have to do to something to make it work in a mix (in god knows what kind of acoustic hell hole) to appear in the monitors. That's why for-real live sound boards have pre EQ sends for monitor mixes. Look at the Midas somebody was talking about in this thread for an example. Or any live sound console beyond the prosumer level stuff we are discussing in this thread.

Also, Mackies are not on the same level as Soundcraft or Allen&Heath - Soundcraft and A&H are widely used by sound pros, whereas, Mackies are typically used by - we'll say, "somewhat less than pros"... In fact, it's not uncommon for Mackies to be specifically barred from use on many tour riders - they've earned a rep as being unreliable... I've also found Mackies mic pre's to be somewhat cold and sterile when compared to those by Soundcraft and A&H...

Soundcraft and A&H both make consoles that are way nicer than anything Mackie makes. They cost well in to the 5 figures and are not the units you are talking about here.

 

[georgestrings]

You clearly have never done a lot of live sound. You don't want all the crap you have to do to something to make it work in a mix (in god knows what kind of acoustic hell hole) to appear in the monitors. That's why for-real live sound boards have pre EQ sends for monitor mixes. Look at the Midas somebody was talking about in this thread for an example. Or any live sound console beyond the prosumer level stuff we are discussing in this thread.



Soundcraft and A&H both make consoles that are way nicer than anything Mackie makes. They cost well in to the 5 figures and are not the units you are talking about here.

I have done a fair amount of soundwork, but mostly in 500 capacity venues and less... A bit of research shows that in the grade level of mixer the OP is looking for, Pre EQ aux sends are far from the norm - so, why bring it up if it only pertains to "for-real live sound boards"??? Do you really think he's considering springing for a Midas???

"I want a decent mid priced unit with good quality parts from a company with excellent CS."


Remember that??? - it was from the OP, and surely that doesn't include a Midas - nor a Mackie, for that matter... Regardless of what you might try to say, that criteria calls for something by Soundcraft or A&H, like I said in the 1st place... You were the one who brought up Mackie - besides not being nearly as reliable as Soundcraft or A&H, they're currently owned by LOUD - which, in case you didn't know it - has a reap as sucking for CS... So, why on earth would you recommend Mackie???

Do you really think it's a good idea - within this price range - to sacrifice reliability and customer service, to have post EQ aux sends??? - I don't...


- georgestrings