Double Bass GR Bass cabs - why would you use anything else?

[Adrian Cho]

The title of the post maybe a little facetious but in truth it's actually the way I feel now after using my GR Bass AT110-350 ACT in a few different situations. Of course I understand that perhaps something like what I got does not have the sound you might want or perhaps its beyond your budget but for me, the sound is great AND the weight is just insane and I actually think that the price of the model I got is extremely reasonable for what it delivers. For the marvel that it is, I was actually expecting to pay more.

Anyway, the weight is just stupidly light. No one who picks it up can believe there is even an amp in there because it because just feels hollow. The only thing for me is apart from just getting used to its particular sound and EQ'ing appropriately, I did find that:

a) Off the floor on a box it sounded horribly nasal. On the floor it sounded great.

b) On one gig I forgot that the ports at the back are putting out some decent sound so you have to be a bit careful where you point the rear. My previous box did have a small rear port but my GR Bass cab has two pretty sizable rear ports. I was on one very loud gig and had it turned up a bit but had it pointing backwards under the piano and the pianist was getting a lot of bass so I put it back towards the drummer and all was good.

Anyway, the sound is not perfect but it's pretty damn good and when combined with the weight, it's fantastic. Sure makes life easier when you are carrying the bass and other stuff as well. If I was to ever to change anything else in the future, the sound or some other aspect of it would have to be ton better if I had to pay the price of carrying more weight.

 

[BassinCT]

I own a NF110-350 ACT and use it for upright gigs and as a practice amp for at home. I also prefer the sound when its placed on the floor, but use a wedge to angle it upward. IME, the inherent elevated sound is a little mid-forward, a little lean in the lows, but can be easily tweaked. For both upright and electric, I have the cabinet's built-in bass control up around +2-3 dB to round things out at lower volumes. When I use it with a big band, the cab isn't near any walls but I keep it on the floor behind me. It has ample low end and doesn't need to be pushed near its limits to be heard in this situation.

It seems that this design has approached the limits of how light a powered bass cab can be. The structure is stiff and non-resonant (the NF version), but I do think damping the internal air resonance a bit more would be helpful. Otherwise, I can't imagine using anything else.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

Cost?

 

[JazznFunk]

If you're talking about the carbon fiber GR cabs, there have been many threads about the questionable construction methods with how they are put together, as it relates to long term durability. Carbon fiber as a material is light and strong, but it's not necessarily superior to other materials when it's not laid and fired as one piece, to maximize structural integrity. That's been the recurring observation with GR cabs that has to be considered as well.

 

[BassBrass]

It's a religious issue, depends on what you were taught as a child and what brand your tribe used.

 

[Adrian Cho]

If you're talking about the carbon fiber GR cabs, there have been many threads about the questionable construction methods with how they are put together, as it relates to long term durability.

Yeah that's interesting and good to know. I'll have to read up a bit about that and try to understand under what circumstances people might had issues. Fortunately I am the kind to baby all my gear and it seems pretty sturdy and I can't imagine what might cause it to destabilize structurally. I did actually sit on my cab the other day during a soundcheck (fortunately I'm pretty light!) but I won't be doing that again!

 

[JazznFunk]

Yeah that's interesting and good to know. I'll have to read up a bit about that and try to understand under what circumstances people might had issues. Fortunately I am the kind to baby all my gear and it seems pretty study and I can't imagine what might cause it to destabilize structurally. I did actually sit on my cab the other day during a soundcheck (fortunately I'm pretty light!) but I won't be doing that again!

I think most of those threads were more on the electric bass side of the board. I'd do a search for 'GR cabs' and maybe 'carbon fiber' to locate them. Lots of good info in there about issues people had.

Edit: this was the specific thread I remember: GR Bass Structural Reliabilty Issues

 

[matthewbrown]

Yeah that's interesting and good to know. I'll have to read up a bit about that and try to understand under what circumstances people might had issues. Fortunately I am the kind to baby all my gear and it seems pretty study and I can't imagine what might cause it to destabilize structurally. I did actually sit on my cab the other day during a soundcheck (fortunately I'm pretty light!) but I won't be doing that again!

I use my Aerotech 1X12 with my EB, and I've had great success with it. The weight is a huge plus, but the first thing I bought after I got it was a padded cover to keep it from getting damaged. It sounds as good as or better than any cab I've owned. I bought a Hofner Club bass so that I could get my entire rig + bass under 30 pounds.

I love it that when I climb a set of stairs carrying the cab one-handed people think I'm physically fit (or look older than my real age, I suppose).

 

[Adrian Cho]

Yeah so having read the threads on TB about some of the problems some people have had, as well as looking at the poll results in one of the threads, and based so far on my exchanges with the dealer and the GR Bass support, I'm definitely not concerned but I guess only time can tell.

 

[Adrian Cho]

One thing that is interesting is the idea that there might be issues over time related to vibration and how that might vary with BG vs DB use if you're pumping out a lot more volume and low-end volume specifically. Certainly for DB I've found I had to roll off the low-end a fair bit to get a natural sound. On the other hand, I tried it with my BGs and it certainly can handle at least the 4-strings with a ton of bass if required and is perfect for my doubling requirements.

 

[Adrian Cho]

Also, related to whether vibration is an issue, I always amazed at the amount of volume that some people need. My needs are much more moderate. Last week I played a couple of shows with a big band - the music of Johnny Richards. Huge sound with 13 horns including tuba, bass sax and lots of fff written in the parts. Very boisterous at times. I had my GR 110 dialed in at no more than 25% (I did have sound coming through FoH too). The idea of ever needing anything more than 1x10 (I played with a 1x8 for the last 8 years) is baffling to me so my feeling is that at least in terms of pushing the cab, what I put through it is only a fraction of its capability.

 

[james condino]

If they did not weigh a mere 11 pounds and cost more than my first used car, would anybody notice them?

 

[fdeck]

… and I thought my rig was light at 14 pounds. But it’s paid for, and I have a compulsion to build my own speakers. Also, I live in a remote village, so the chances of trying something before buying it are small.

But that GR amp does seem attractive, and the price doesn’t seem unfair.

 

[Adrian Cho]

If they did not weigh a mere 11 pounds and cost more than my first used car, would anybody notice them?

No they would not. The only one who cares is the bass player who has to carry it. I still think the price is actually extremely reasonable. At least in my area, a Mesa D-350 which is a similar capacity fanless head, is almost the same price as what I paid for my GR cab. The Henriksen combo I was using previously, which admittedly had two channels with a lot of functionality in the preamp, was about twice the price I paid for my GR cab. But for sure there will always be less expensive options.

 

[micguy]

Carbon fiber as a material is light and strong, but it's not necessarily superior to other materials when it's not laid and fired as one piece, to maximize structural integrity.

Carbon fiber is 3x the density of maple - it made it reputation in cars and such, as it is much less dense than steel. But compared to wood, nope - it's actually more dense than any wood species. Anyway, to make a light weight carbon fiber speaker cabinet, the carbon fiber parts have to be very thin. It is possible to make panels that do very cool things with carbon fiber involved, but it's also possible to make things that don't work very well and/or hold up.

In my case, I literally don't care how much my cabinets weigh, as I don't move them any more - all my gigs are ampless. So, how light your cabinets are is an academic exercise. How light my basses are (they are all very light); that matters to me.

 

[JazznFunk]

Carbon fiber is 3x the density of maple - it made it reputation in cars and such, as it is much less dense than steel. But compared to wood, nope - it's actually more dense than any wood species. Anyway, to make a light weight carbon fiber speaker cabinet, the carbon fiber parts have to be very thin. It is possible to make panels that do very cool things with carbon fiber involved, but it's also possible to make things that don't work very well and/or hold up.

In my case, I literally don't care how much my cabinets weigh, as I don't move them any more - all my gigs are ampless. So, how light your cabinets are is an academic exercise. How light my basses are (they are all very light); that matters to me.

I'm aware of the strength-to-thickness-to-weight ratio of carbon fiber, and the weight considerations from my years around IndyCar paddocks, and even from my mountain biking days. It's a very cool material in very specific applications... and very expensive.

These cabinets are a prime example of things that (potentially) don't hold up well just because someone wanted to use carbon fiber to be cool. The weight goal can be achieved, but at the price of durability and structural integrity, if they are built with individual panels filled with foam core and then assembled like an Ikea cabinet. With those exposed joints and corners, once the resin is compromised and the weave is broken, you're done. Wood is indeed a MUCH better and more consistent material for bass cabs, as long as the carbon fiber cabs are constructed in that fashion. I personally wouldn't trust the long term structural integrity of the GR cabs, based on the ways I've seen them put together.... especially not for what they cost.

In order for CF cabs to be structurally sound they need to be laid up and fired as one complete seamless piece - like a front wing assembly or tub in an IndyCar or an F1 car, and then a front panel with the speakers, wiring, etc could be fit into the opening and secured. The drawback to that is that they would indeed be heavier and MUCH more expensive, because it's more material involved.... which defeats the marketing of the cabs. That said, my carbon fiber bows are pretty light. How light they are compared with my favorite Pernambuco bow is something I've never checked... or cared to check really.

How much your cabinets weigh, as long as we're being rational and pragmatic about the weights and expectations, is not just an 'academic' exercise. Personally, it's easier and more practical for me to carry my MarkBass neo 2x10 Traveler that weighs around 30-40lbs with one hand, and my bass in another, versus needing both hands and a strong back to haul just one of my old SWR 2x10 cabinets... which weigh almost twice that.

The cabinet that never moves from my studio is my 1991 SWR Goliath. 99lbs.

 

[Topkat13]

Uh…preference?

 

[micguy]

I'm aware of the strength-to-thickness ratio of carbon fiber, and the weight considerations from my years around IndyCar paddocks.

These cabinets are a prime example of things that (potentially) don't hold up well just because someone wanted to use carbon fiber to be cool. The weight goal can be achieved, but at the price of durability and structural integrity, if they are built as individual panels filled with foam core and then assembled like an Ikea cabinet. With those exposed joints and corners, once the resin is compromised and the weave is broken, you're done.

In order for them to be structurally sound they need to be laid up and fired as one complete seamless piece - like a front wing assembly or tub in an IndyCar or an F1 car. The drawback to that is that they would indeed be heavier.... which defeats the marketing of the cabs. That said, my carbon fiber bows are pretty light. How light they are compared with my favorite Pernambuco bow is something I've never checked... or cared to check really.

Carbon fiber is likely a better material for bows, as the end part of a bow uses wood with a lot of runout (it's the same issue as a Gibson headstock- the stress there is pretty tough). With carbon fiber, the "grain" direction can be manipulated to address that weak point. Given that, and the scarceness of Pernambuco that is straight enough for bows, carbon fiber bows are a really good, environmentally responsible idea.

 

[Don Kasper]

I use and endorse the use of 3/8in. cabinet grade birch veneer plywood for my small, ultralite bass cab.
Mine is just 11lbs., and contains a very high quality Faital 10in. speaker.
But, I'm old and old fashioned.
Thanks.

 

[JazznFunk]

Carbon fiber is likely a better material for bows, as the end part of a bow uses wood with a lot of runout (it's the same issue as a Gibson headstock- the stress there is pretty tough). With carbon fiber, the "grain" direction can be manipulated to address that weak point. Given that, and the scarceness of Pernambuco that is straight enough for bows, carbon fiber bows are a really good, environmentally responsible idea.

Yep... and the bow is laid up and fired as one complete piece.... thus the structural integrity vs weight is very good.